Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

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71 Nova
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Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#1 Post by 71 Nova » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:48 pm

My new 408 is giving my old 9 inch Quick Time Pros fits, 60 ft times are not so good. So for my next project I'm gonna mini tub the rear and move the leaf springs inboard like that described on John's Nova (Old Blue) in this post --> (leaf spring relocation kit). I had a few questions after reading that post...

John, did you trim the stock wheel tubs back to the stock rear subframe, or did you have to notch the stock subframe in any location?

John, the pic shows you using 10.5 inch wide tires (looks so cool 8-) ). Is that the largest that will fit after the mintubs and spring relocation?

How much can you lower the rear with this mod?

I have the Comp Engr. bolt in subframe connectors installed and welded in, so I will have to fab some inboard spring pockets for the front of the leaf springs. The CE weld in connectors have these built in, and have the front spring eye mount hole referenced from the stock mounting hole, just a bit lower. Can some get me the dimension from the locating hole to the mounting hole? Looks to be an inch or so...

When determining the location of the sliders, how did you figure out where the rear spring eye would end up? As John mentioned in the post, Calvert said to mount the slider with the eye 1 - 1 1/2 inch back from slider when resting on ground (ie: with full car weight on it). How did you simulate car weight?

For you guys that have done this, any "lessons learned" for my first crack at this?

Thanks John & guys,
Ken
69 Nova 408 SBC
Best to date: 10.241 @ 128.36 mph 1.404 60ft.

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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#2 Post by John_Heard » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:22 am

71 Nova wrote:My new 408 is giving my old 9 inch Quick Time Pros fits, 60 ft times are not so good. So for my next project I'm gonna mini tub the rear and move the leaf springs inboard like that described on John's Nova (Old Blue) in this post --> (leaf spring relocation kit). I had a few questions after reading that post...

John, did you trim the stock wheel tubs back to the stock rear subframe, or did you have to notch the stock subframe in any location?

John, the pic shows you using 10.5 inch wide tires (looks so cool 8-) ). Is that the largest that will fit after the mintubs and spring relocation?

How much can you lower the rear with this mod?

I have the Comp Engr. bolt in subframe connectors installed and welded in, so I will have to fab some inboard spring pockets for the front of the leaf springs. The CE weld in connectors have these built in, and have the front spring eye mount hole referenced from the stock mounting hole, just a bit lower. Can some get me the dimension from the locating hole to the mounting hole? Looks to be an inch or so...

When determining the location of the sliders, how did you figure out where the rear spring eye would end up? As John mentioned in the post, Calvert said to mount the slider with the eye 1 - 1 1/2 inch back from slider when resting on ground (ie: with full car weight on it). How did you simulate car weight?

For you guys that have done this, any "lessons learned" for my first crack at this?

Thanks John & guys,
Ken
Ol' Blue has been through two mini-tubs projects now, the last one was to gain more tire clearance so I could run 29.5x10.5S's on 12" rims almost 2 years ago. The rear frame has been heavily notched, there's not much left of it and the inside portion has been reinforced to strenghten it back up after the major notch put in it. Yes, the inner wheel wells go all the way to flush with the frame.

29.5x10.5s on a 12" rim is about the max it can take as low as the car sits now. We're getting ready for Mini-tub #3 now, I'm going to see if I can make enough room to get a 315 radial under it on a 12" rim, that's gonna be tough to do. The car sits now pretty low for a leaf sping car, the wheel rim in the rear is about even with the fender lip. That required Calverts softest split mono spring, the sliders and a 1" lowering block. Note: When you lower one like this, it takes anti-squat away from the car, so be aware this does alter the way it hits the tire.

Image

All I can remember on the height of the comp frame connectors was that on mine the top hole was a little lower than stock, and the bottom hole was a little higher than stock. I run mine in the top hole (lowest ride height).

I determined where to put the sliders after I had the front mounts done. Bolted in the springs and just looked to see where they would hit under the floor pan. You want to make sure where the rear mounts will be there isn't any binding side to side. As far as where to mount the slider front to rear, I have a plate the slider bolts to, then the plate is welded to the mount. I just set the car on the ground with the weight on it, tacked the plates in place, then took it back apart to weld them the rest of the way.

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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#3 Post by gearjammer » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:24 pm

John_Heard wrote:
71 Nova wrote:My new 408 is giving my old 9 inch Quick Time Pros fits, 60 ft times are not so good. So for my next project I'm gonna mini tub the rear and move the leaf springs inboard like that described on John's Nova (Old Blue) in this post --> (leaf spring relocation kit). I had a few questions after reading that post...

John, did you trim the stock wheel tubs back to the stock rear subframe, or did you have to notch the stock subframe in any location?

John, the pic shows you using 10.5 inch wide tires (looks so cool 8-) ). Is that the largest that will fit after the mintubs and spring relocation?

How much can you lower the rear with this mod?

I have the Comp Engr. bolt in subframe connectors installed and welded in, so I will have to fab some inboard spring pockets for the front of the leaf springs. The CE weld in connectors have these built in, and have the front spring eye mount hole referenced from the stock mounting hole, just a bit lower. Can some get me the dimension from the locating hole to the mounting hole? Looks to be an inch or so...

When determining the location of the sliders, how did you figure out where the rear spring eye would end up? As John mentioned in the post, Calvert said to mount the slider with the eye 1 - 1 1/2 inch back from slider when resting on ground (ie: with full car weight on it). How did you simulate car weight?

For you guys that have done this, any "lessons learned" for my first crack at this?

Thanks John & guys,
Ken
Ol' Blue has been through two mini-tubs projects now, the last one was to gain more tire clearance so I could run 29.5x10.5S's on 12" rims almost 2 years ago. The rear frame has been heavily notched, there's not much left of it and the inside portion has been reinforced to strenghten it back up after the major notch put in it. Yes, the inner wheel wells go all the way to flush with the frame.

29.5x10.5s on a 12" rim is about the max it can take as low as the car sits now. We're getting ready for Mini-tub #3 now, I'm going to see if I can make enough room to get a 315 radial under it on a 12" rim, that's gonna be tough to do. The car sits now pretty low for a leaf sping car, the wheel rim in the rear is about even with the fender lip. That required Calverts softest split mono spring, the sliders and a 1" lowering block. Note: When you lower one like this, it takes anti-squat away from the car, so be aware this does alter the way it hits the tire.

Image

All I can remember on the height of the comp frame connectors was that on mine the top hole was a little lower than stock, and the bottom hole was a little higher than stock. I run mine in the top hole (lowest ride height).

I determined where to put the sliders after I had the front mounts done. Bolted in the springs and just looked to see where they would hit under the floor pan. You want to make sure where the rear mounts will be there isn't any binding side to side. As far as where to mount the slider front to rear, I have a plate the slider bolts to, then the plate is welded to the mount. I just set the car on the ground with the weight on it, tacked the plates in place, then took it back apart to weld them the rest of the way.

OK JOHN, you know what you have to do now don't you I want that stance so show me / us some pics PLEASE cause I'm starting next month. When you say it alters the way it hits the tire could you explain an little more please.

Thanks
Phil aka Gearjammer
JPR Racing
1972 Nova
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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#4 Post by John_Heard » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:21 pm

Hey Phil... It's just Cal-Vert's lightest spring & 1" drop block, sliders and upper hole in the front - you already got the same mounts and stuff.

With it that low it won't hit the tire as hard, lowers the IC point basically... Lower center of gravity and all that. I don't know that it's the way to go, was having problems with too much wheel speed, but I want to play some more with it. It'll be a new animal next time out, so back to square one. :rolleyes:

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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#5 Post by gearjammer » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:29 pm

John_Heard wrote:Hey Phil... It's just Cal-Vert's lightest spring & 1" drop block, sliders and upper hole in the front - you already got the same mounts and stuff.

With it that low it won't hit the tire as hard, lowers the IC point basically... Lower center of gravity and all that. I don't know that it's the way to go, was having problems with too much wheel speed, but I want to play some more with it. It'll be a new animal next time out, so back to square one. :rolleyes:

Thanks John, but it looks like mine mount different than yours, if I remember right I thought your Caltrac type bars went on the outside of the spring pocket where mine go on the inside

Image

So if I go up it looks to me like I might have some interferance that I may need to remove or am I looking at it wrong

Thanks Phil
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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#6 Post by John_Heard » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:38 am

Your memory is correct, the "John-Tracs" are made different, the plates are on the outside, not like the original cal-tracs that are on the inside of the spring pocket. Looking at your frame connectors compared to mine, yours look to me like they are setting a little lower (away from the frame) than mine are as well. Where are your spring mounting holes as compared to OEM?

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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#7 Post by gearjammer » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:09 pm

John_Heard wrote:Your memory is correct, the "John-Tracs" are made different, the plates are on the outside, not like the original cal-tracs that are on the inside of the spring pocket. Looking at your frame connectors compared to mine, yours look to me like they are setting a little lower (away from the frame) than mine are as well. Where are your spring mounting holes as compared to OEM?
I'm 1" higher than the stock location which will reflect in a 1" lower stance but I want moooooorrrrrrreeeeeeeeee

Here is where I'm at right now
Image
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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#8 Post by John_Heard » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:22 pm

1" lowering blocks will get ya closer. What rate springs do you have?

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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#9 Post by 427belair » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:46 pm

I really am sorry to hijack gear jammer, it is kinda relevent. John did you fit the 29.5's in the stock wheel well?

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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#10 Post by John_Heard » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:49 pm

No, it has been mini-tubbed. It would not be possible to put 29.5x10.5's on 12" wheels in stock tubs. In fact it takes a great deal of frame notching to get them under there.

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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#11 Post by gearjammer » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:08 pm

John_Heard wrote:1" lowering blocks will get ya closer. What rate springs do you have?
YOu know John I don't remember I'm going to have to pull my paperwork and call John to find out

Phil
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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#12 Post by 71 Nova » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:27 pm

Thanks a lot John, for the answers and info. But it seems I always have more questions!!!
John_Heard wrote: Ol' Blue has been through two mini-tubs projects now, the last one was to gain more tire clearance so I could run 29.5x10.5S's on 12" rims almost 2 years ago. The rear frame has been heavily notched, there's not much left of it and the inside portion has been reinforced to strenghten it back up after the major notch put in it. Yes, the inner wheel wells go all the way to flush with the frame.
I assume you notched the frame in the rear where it angles outboard? Do you have any idea what size tire could be used with just the mini tubs and leaf spring relocation?
John_Heard wrote:All I can remember on the height of the comp frame connectors was that on mine the top hole was a little lower than stock, and the bottom hole was a little higher than stock. I run mine in the top hole (lowest ride height).
So then the spring pocket is inboard on the rear frame rail so you can use the upper hole? It's hard to tell from these photos (that I pirated from your website) where the relocated spring pocket is laterally. It looks like there is a brace of some kind that would prevent the use of the upper hole. Can you clarify please, John? The reason I'm asking is because I have the bolt-in subframe connectors which have been welded front and rear and I must build my own spring pockets.
DSC00068.jpg
DSC00069.jpg
DSC00010_15_.jpg
John_Heard wrote:I determined where to put the sliders after I had the front mounts done. Bolted in the springs and just looked to see where they would hit under the floor pan. You want to make sure where the rear mounts will be there isn't any binding side to side. As far as where to mount the slider front to rear, I have a plate the slider bolts to, then the plate is welded to the mount. I just set the car on the ground with the weight on it, tacked the plates in place, then took it back apart to weld them the rest of the way.
That makes sense and sounds easy enough!

Thanks a bunch for the info!
Ken
69 Nova 408 SBC
Best to date: 10.241 @ 128.36 mph 1.404 60ft.

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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#13 Post by John_Heard » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:20 am

The frame notch starts about where the axle is and tapers down to a just the inner portion of the frame at the rear. It's reinforced on the inboard side of the frame rail to make up for the big notch.

I'm not real sure how much you could get under one without notching the frame. Ride height and rim size plays a big part as well. I did have 28x10.5w's on 10" rims on it with about a 1/2 width frame notch. I'm not sure if you could get 28x10.5 on a 9 or 10" rim under without notching the frame or not. With those you might not even need to move the front spring pocket. Some of the guys we race with used 28x10.5 on a 10 or 9" wheel, but didn't move the front, just the rear on a Nova.

The front spring pocket is setup side to side where the outside edge of the spring is about even with the outside edge of the frame rail. You can use the upper hole, but it gives you fits with clearance between the frame rail and the cal-trac cross bolt that goes above the spring. It all gets VERY tight there when you run the spring in the top hole.

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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#14 Post by 427belair » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:43 pm

I mis stated my question I guess. Did you have to strech the wheel opening to fit the 29.5 tall tire. I have back-halved mine with over 19" to the frame, but dont know if I can go any taller than the 28" I have now.

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Re: Nova Mini Tub / Leaf Spring Relocation Q???

#15 Post by BracketNova » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:33 pm

Here is a shot of my frame. What I did is I filet-ed the frame. I sliced it (top and bottom) in a way that I could pull back the tire side of the slice. I the took a piece of 1/4" plate and drilled holes in it...that allowed me to place it inside the opened frame and plug weld the holes I drilles in the plate to the frame rail. I then cut a pie piece oout of the top and bottom of the rail. Next I pushed the sliced open (tire side) part of the rail back down and welded the edges. I then put another piece of 1/4" plate behind the frame, and used a scap from the frame to the trunk pan to form another small box.

I have 29 x 12's on a 12" rim on mine. When I ordered my split monos I told them I wanted it dropped 2". My calvert springs are LF125-445 and LR231-345.


To check out more pics you can go here...
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... 388eddaa75



Hope this helps.
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'71 Nova E85
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