Rack & Pinion question

[sverbus]

Finally got the car aligned and back to my garage and have drove it a bit. Before getting it aligned, it was "darting" REAL bad...was dangerous to drive. I had to crawl to the Goodyear.

Now that it's been on the alignment machine, it's 100% better, but it's still a little hairy to drive at times. the most times I've noticed (and I'll try to describe it as clearly as I can) is when I was coming down the outter belt in Columbus here, and there are dozens of overpasses from smaller streets below. When they transition from the blacktop to the concrete for those overpass bbridges, it's never even. when I hit those area's, it can get a little hairy. If it's on a slight embankment and you hit one of those while making a turn, it's a bit more.

I've attached some pic's and I'm thinking that the arms are a bit to high...do you think that I can move the heim joint to the bottom of the steering arm?

Thoughts/advice? Or is that just how these old cars with manual racks int hem act? I've not really launched the car (the motor is still being broken in) so I'm not real sure how it's going to react when it does that.

[supernova]

I don't think that will work or is even safe. I don't know of anyone that has gotten a front mounted rack to work with stock A-arms. The geometry is all wrong.

After market A-arms are made for front mounted racks and will allow you to put the steering rod on the bottom of the steering arm not the top of it. The bump steer must be really bad if hitting small bumps is upsetting the steering.

I would rethink what the set up is and make it right before you have an accident..........

You need to get the proper equipment for the rack set up and let someone who has experience setting it up right.
I'm not trying to bust your bubble, I just don't want to see you wreck your car.

I installed and set up mine set up the rack in my car but I had to learn a lot about steering geometry to do it right. There's a lot more to it than just putting a rack in.

[Craig W.]

My rack setup is working fine with stock a-arms.

The heim joints on mine are below the TRZ steering arms. I've got about 1/4" of high misalignment spacer between the joint and the steering arm.

The pinto rack is a little too wide at the pivots for a Nova. So you can't get all the bump steer out of it. I adjusted mine so that its worst at full rebound and then limited the travel to not let it get to that position. I needed to limit the travel to fight wheel stands anyway. So it works well.

[supernova]

I have TRZ a-arms on mine and so far it has minimal bump steer. It's not even noticable. I set mine up and strung the alingment in the driveway. It goes straight as an arrow. I have not noticed any thing that up sets the steering.

Craig, if you got your's to work with stock a-arms, your the only one that I know of that has......I chose not to fight the stock a-arms with a rack because of all the horror storys I've heard..

[sverbus]

I'll figure it out...I wont' quit until I DO! I also agree with you, that I don't feel very safe in the car.

And yes, I agree, there really isn't going to be a way to get this thing to fully be without bumpsteer with these factory a-arms...but like Craig, I might be able to limit the travel of the suspenion and make it very minimal. I'm just learning :)

I might try moving the arms down UNDER the steering arms.

[wikd69]

Finally got the car aligned and back to my garage and have drove it a bit. Before getting it aligned, it was "darting" REAL bad...was dangerous to drive. I had to crawl to the Goodyear.

Now that it's been on the alignment machine, it's 100% better, but it's still a little hairy to drive at times. the most times I've noticed (and I'll try to describe it as clearly as I can) is when I was coming down the outter belt in Columbus here, and there are dozens of overpasses from smaller streets below. When they transition from the blacktop to the concrete for those overpass bbridges, it's never even. when I hit those area's, it can get a little hairy. If it's on a slight embankment and you hit one of those while making a turn, it's a bit more.

I've attached some pic's and I'm thinking that the arms are a bit to high...do you think that I can move the heim joint to the bottom of the steering arm?

Thoughts/advice? Or is that just how these old cars with manual racks int hem act? I've not really launched the car (the motor is still being broken in) so I'm not real sure how it's going to react when it does that.

can you swap the tie rod to the bottom of the spindle arm ? that might put the tie rod more horizontal and might get rid of most of that bump steer. bump steer will kill ya if it's too extreme...

[supernova]

I'll figure it out...I wont' quit until I DO! I also agree with you, that I don't feel very safe in the car.

And yes, I agree, there really isn't going to be a way to get this thing to fully be without bumpsteer with these factory a-arms...but like Craig, I might be able to limit the travel of the suspenion and make it very minimal. I'm just learning :)

I might try moving the arms down UNDER the steering arms.

I'm sure you'll figure it out. Just don't want to see anyone wreck their car. I've heard some horror story's of nice cars get wrecked, thats why I went a head and bought the TRZ a-arms. The only thing I don't like about them is thay lay the spindle back 10* which make turnning the car turn like a bus but boy does it go straight.......

[Craig W.]

Additional caster will also raise up the steering arm and allow you more room for adjustment of the heim joint.

I had to lower my rack down about 1/2" from where I originally had it. My advice is to mount it low and you can always raise it back up with washers under the mounts.

I had to limit my front end travel to 4.5" to get the worst of the bump steer out. I set the rack and heim joints to where is has virtually zero bump steer from the middle of the travel to full compression. That way when it comes down from a wheelie, it doesn't dart around. But that put all the bump steer at full suspension rebound and I limit it to keep it from being able to get there. Works well for me.

[John_Heard]

Agree with everyone, should move the tie rod to below the steering arm. Bump steer on the current setup has to be horrendous!

While that will be an improvement, it really would be a good idea to do the work to get the bumpsteer down to a minimum. This can be quite a tedious task moving things around till you get it minimized. Is there a chassis shop in your area?

[sverbus]

Yes, I'm going to put the arms under the sterring arms tonight. Would it require a realignment after I do so?

There are a few chassis shops here in Columbus, but I'm sure myy dad an I can figure it out. Just won't get to drive the car much until its fixed.

I'm just hoping that I can put the arms under the steering arms without hitting the lower control arm.

[John_Heard]

Yes, it will absolutely, positively without a doubt require realignment.

We can help you figure out the bump steer, but just letting you know it can be a real pain in the butt - very well might be worth taking it to a shop and watching them while they fix it for you.

Do you have any tools to check alignment, caster and camber available?

[Craig W.]

I'm just hoping that I can put the arms under the steering arms without hitting the lower control arm.

Mine clear. I'll try to snap a picture or two of mine tonight.

[sverbus]

Sweet Craig...well hopefully I'll get lucky and it will be ok till winter when I can get some tubulars.

[ytnova]

Yeah, you gotta get that fixed. I can only imagine how much of a fun ride that was.

[tallwelder]

The project You are doing seems doable but You MUST buy a bump steer gauge for starters. Here is a link to a economy model although I would prefer a Longacre instead.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/DECO-BUMP ... GoogleBase

You will probably find the rack needs narrowed for Your application to achieve minimum bumpsteer. How much is the big question. Looks as if You have TRZ steering arms You might call them to purchase one of their racks that has the correct distance between the inner tie rod ends.

If Your time means nothing then just get the gauge but You could spend lots of hours and possibly days trying to get the bumpsteer sorted out searching for the correct distance of the inners. Not to mention machining the rack and cutting and welding the rack housing.

Providing all You change is the rack, and do not change the caster or camber, You can make a trammel bar to set the toe in and avoid another alignment.

Hope this helps.
Carl