Electric water pump vs thermostat

General Engine Discussion

Moderator: John_Heard

Message
Author
User avatar
Bruce69Camaro
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:07 am
Location: PA

Electric water pump vs thermostat

#1 Post by Bruce69Camaro » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:36 am

I'm not sure if I seen this discussion on here or not, but if you run an electric water pump, which theroy sounds better?
A- Open, no thermostat at all
B- 180F Thermostat with 1/8 weep holes
C- Moroso restrictors and from what I hear, the middle size is used the most.

Any comments

Thanks
Those who think they know it all have no way of finding out they don't......... :scratch:

User avatar
Mike Peters
Posts: 930
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:48 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#2 Post by Mike Peters » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:15 am

A is the choice. No thermostat. The theory of holding water in the radiator longer to cool it makes no sense when you're also holding the water in the engine to heat it up more. Flow is what you want.

You're welcome ;)
"If winning was easy, losers would be doing it"

User avatar
Bruce69Camaro
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:07 am
Location: PA

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#3 Post by Bruce69Camaro » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:35 am

Thank you.....and glad to see your still alive.
Those who think they know it all have no way of finding out they don't......... :scratch:

User avatar
wikd69
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:42 pm
Location: Rocklin, CA
Contact:

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#4 Post by wikd69 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:39 am

Mike Peters wrote:A is the choice. No thermostat. The theory of holding water in the radiator longer to cool it makes no sense when you're also holding the water in the engine to heat it up more. Flow is what you want.

You're welcome ;)
My take is somewhat different on this topic - I rely on the thermostat to help maintain minimum heat in the engine. Beyond that I have a large radiator with a large fan with lots of air flow and a high volume mechanical water pump, the idea being that I can get rid of large amounts of waste heat pretty quickly when needed. If I don't run a thermostat with my setup my engine heat ends up all over the map - way too cold a lot of the time during cool weather. Running without a thermostat or with just a restrictor plate may work on the track but I don't believe it's practical for my type of use - primarily street driving with some track use. I have to operate this build in 50 to 100 degree weather - a huge range for this build where the blower itself is pumping heat into the motor before any combustion takes place. When it's 50 degrees out, I have to rely on the thermostat to help build and maintain reasonable engine heat - without it, I'd never get above 120 degrees on the gauge with all the cooling capacity I've built into the motor. When it's 90 degrees out, I need the overkill cooling to compensate.

My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

User avatar
Bruce69Camaro
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:07 am
Location: PA

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#5 Post by Bruce69Camaro » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:50 am

I guess the best way to determine this is trial and error.

I have heard people say to put a thermostat in with the 1/8" weep holes, to use no thermostat or to use a restrictor plate, but in the end, I guess it's up to the components on my car to tell me what it wants, huh?

I've got an aluminum radiator, the fan and shroud combo and the water pump is suppose to flow 37gpm. I also plan to use a bottle of that Water Wetter from Redline.
Those who think they know it all have no way of finding out they don't......... :scratch:

User avatar
ytnova
Posts: 735
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:21 am
Location: orlando, florida/ under a hood
Contact:

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#6 Post by ytnova » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:58 pm

I would think it would depend on what you are using the car for. If you are strickly drag racing and it is hot where you live, no thermostat is the way to go. Makes it real easy to cool the car off between rounds. But even in a cool climate, if you have individual control of turning on and off the pump and fan, you can put the temp where you want it.
I am not really sure what the question is, but I am pretty sure the answer is Big Block.

User avatar
Bruce69Camaro
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:07 am
Location: PA

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#7 Post by Bruce69Camaro » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:06 pm

Well, I live in PA and most of the time it's below 100F until just recently......(We'll blame in on Global Warming...)

But I will have the fan and electric pump both wired on individual switches for better control.

And yes the car is strickly drag.

Thanks
Those who think they know it all have no way of finding out they don't......... :scratch:

User avatar
Mike Peters
Posts: 930
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:48 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#8 Post by Mike Peters » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:38 pm

Hey Brotha....this excerpt is taken from the Stewart Components website. I'd think they'd know a few things about automotive cooling - Pay close attention to the part about lowering the velocity of the coolant within the engine.

Thermostats & Restrictors
We strongly recommend NEVER using a restrictor: they decrease coolant flow and ultimately inhibit cooling.

A common misconception is that if coolant flows too quickly through the system, that it will not have time to cool properly. However the cooling system is a closed loop, so if you are keeping the coolant in the radiator longer to allow it to cool, you are also allowing it to stay in the engine longer, which increases coolant temperatures. Coolant in the engine will actually boil away from critical heat areas within the cooling system if not forced through the cooling system at a sufficiently high velocity. This situation is a common cause of so-called "hot spots", which can lead to failures.

Years ago, cars used low pressure radiator caps with upright-style radiators. At high RPM, the water pump pressure would overcome the radiator cap's rating and force coolant out, resulting in an overheated engine. Many enthusiasts mistakenly believed that these situations were caused because the coolant was flowing through the radiator so quickly, that it did not have time to cool. Using restrictors or slowing water pump speed prevented the coolant from being forced out, and allowed the engine to run cooler. However, cars built in the past thirty years have used cross flow radiators that position the radiator cap on the low pressure (suction) side of the system. This type of system does not subject the radiator cap to pressure from the water pump, so it benefits from maximizing coolant flow, not restricting it.
"If winning was easy, losers would be doing it"

User avatar
Mike Peters
Posts: 930
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:48 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#9 Post by Mike Peters » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:42 pm

Also some tech info from Stewart on using softening agents like Water Wetter -

UNEQUIVOCALLY WATER IS THE BEST COOLANT! We recommend using a corrosion inhibitor comparable to Prestone Super Anti-Rust when using pure water. If freezing is a concern, use the minimum amount of antifreeze required for your climate. Stewart Components has extensively tested all of the popular "magic" cooling system additives, and found that none work better than water. In fact, some additives have been found to swell the water pumps seals and contribute to pump failures.

In static cooling situations, such as quenching metal during heat treating, softening agents (sometimes referred to as water wetting agents) will allow the water to cool the quenched part more evenly and quickly. The part will cool quicker, and the water will heat up faster. However, an automotive cooling system is not static. In fact, the velocities inside a cooling system are comparable to a fire hose forcing coolant against the walls of the engine's water jackets. If the softening agents actually aided in cooling the engine, the temperature of the coolant as it exited the engine would have to be higher because it would have absorbed more heat.
"If winning was easy, losers would be doing it"

User avatar
Craig W.
Posts: 1257
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:01 am
Location: Columbia, KY
Contact:

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#10 Post by Craig W. » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:55 pm

Anyone heard of using windshield washer fluid in the cooling system? A guy asked me today if I had heard of that. Some derby car guys are trying it around here but I don't know any results. I think they are mistaking evaporative cooling for something useful in a closed loop system that has no phase change under normal conditions.
Craig Watson
2QuickNovas Racing
5.23@131

Sponsors:
AEM Electronics
Carnivore Performance
Rapp Racing
VFN Fiberglass
Fast Shafts

User avatar
chpcamaro
Posts: 773
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:28 am
Location: socali

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#11 Post by chpcamaro » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:21 am

well i have been using water soluble oil in all my motors and customers cars for years everything last longer and runs 15 to 20 degrees cooler than antifreeze and that is all prestone rust anhibitor is also. i refuse to run a thermostate in a hotrod well unless you live in a super cold climate.
i have been experimenting with cooling systems fan set ups i love a good cooling challenge lol :smt003

hey Craig W. i have heard of people trying it thinking the alcohle will help cooling no one i know has any luck with it tho
Last edited by chpcamaro on Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
best to date N/A 8.91@153
psca westcoast heads up racing open comp
67 Camaro RS/SS
BBC Powerglide 4800 stall 4.11 29.5x10.5W
http://www.chpdragracing.com

User avatar
wikd69
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:42 pm
Location: Rocklin, CA
Contact:

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#12 Post by wikd69 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:22 am

Craig W. wrote:Anyone heard of using windshield washer fluid in the cooling system? A guy asked me today if I had heard of that. Some derby car guys are trying it around here but I don't know any results. I think they are mistaking evaporative cooling for something useful in a closed loop system that has no phase change under normal conditions.
Check this site out. Waterless cooling system. Interesting but something about it bothers me, not sure what...

http://www.evanscooling.com/
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

User avatar
Bruce69Camaro
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:07 am
Location: PA

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#13 Post by Bruce69Camaro » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:06 am

Mike Peters wrote:Hey Brotha....this excerpt is taken from the Stewart Components website. I'd think they'd know a few things about automotive cooling - Pay close attention to the part about lowering the velocity of the coolant within the engine.
Isn't this the same company Martha Stewart own's? :smt005

Currently I'm not running a thermostat so this will be one less thing I need to change.

And speaking of fluid, what is a good product to run in my system with the aluminum radiator? I was told to put in Red Line,
Water Wetter.
Those who think they know it all have no way of finding out they don't......... :scratch:

User avatar
Mike Peters
Posts: 930
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:48 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#14 Post by Mike Peters » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:11 am

Bruce69Camaro wrote:
Mike Peters wrote:Hey Brotha....this excerpt is taken from the Stewart Components website. I'd think they'd know a few things about automotive cooling - Pay close attention to the part about lowering the velocity of the coolant within the engine.
Isn't this the same company Martha Stewart own's? :smt005

Currently I'm not running a thermostat so this will be one less thing I need to change.

And speaking of fluid, what is a good product to run in my system with the aluminum radiator? I was told to put in Red Line,
Water Wetter.
Hey Hockey Head :-P , get the mask off your mug and read the part where Stewart recommends running the Prestone Super Anti-Rust. As Stewart (no, not Martha!!) does state, the softening agents such as Water Wetter would work well in a static environment but, when the coolant is rushing by at 37 gpm, the coolant has no time to fill all the little nooks and crevices that lower surface tension would normally accomplish.
"If winning was easy, losers would be doing it"

User avatar
Bruce69Camaro
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:07 am
Location: PA

Re: Electric water pump vs thermostat

#15 Post by Bruce69Camaro » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:42 am

Ok Mikey, how many times do I have to tell you, the cup does not go on your head, the helmet belongs up there :roll:
but I still love you like a brother and mom is really concerned with you and the crouch grabbing thing :smt005

Ok, other then Prestone, has anyone had good success with "any" other water additive?

I've been told to use Red Line water wetter but I know someone that uses a similar product by Royal Purple.
Those who think they know it all have no way of finding out they don't......... :scratch:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests