Ok, new season, new parts...

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wikd69
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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#16 Post by wikd69 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:08 am

Soon.


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1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Craig W.
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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#17 Post by Craig W. » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:24 pm

If you're like me, you're chomping at the bit to get it done!
Craig Watson
2QuickNovas Racing
5.27@130

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wikd69
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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#18 Post by wikd69 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:40 pm

Craig W. wrote:If you're like me, you're chomping at the bit to get it done!
Unfortunately, this build has been months (literally) in the making. Work and a job change, lots of complications and problems has made this one drag out forever. :(

I'm hoping to make noise over this next week though. I got it stuffed in the ride last nite and I'm now slowly getting everything gathered back up and back in the ride. This booger has not made noise since March 2012.

Soon, if I don't hit another snag :)
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Craig W.
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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#19 Post by Craig W. » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:39 pm

Mine hasn't been started since July of 2012. I hope to have it running this week.

I worked on plumbing the fuel system and the line lock tonight.
Craig Watson
2QuickNovas Racing
5.27@130

Sponsors:
AEM Electronics
Carnivore Performance
Bradco Converters
Rapp Racing
VFN Fiberglass

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wikd69
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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#20 Post by wikd69 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:16 pm

So here's a question for anybody watching...

This motor is *really* hard to spin by hand. It got tougher and tougher to roll as I set up the new Jesels and push rods against these new valve springs, cylinder by cylinder.

How much resistance should these new springs introduce ? Same cam ( .714 lift ), same rocker ratio with these new shaft rockers (1.70), but *way* stouter springs ==> 330 lb seat and 720 lb open pressure.

By the time I got the full drive train setup it was a real bitch to spin over. What's everybody else's experience with this ?

How much torque should it take to roll this motor by hand without plugs in it ?

Also - how much HP does it take just to spin against these springs ?
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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supernova
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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#21 Post by supernova » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:29 am

Lol
Your fighting spring pressure, it's going to be hard! Lol
I wait to set the valves until the motor is in the car and use the starter to turn it over. I hope your not turning it over with the crank balancer bolt. I'v seen people break the bolt trying to turn motors over with it. Although setting the valves on the stand is easy'er.
Blackhoodmafia!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

1972 Nova SS
572 C.I. BBC

Best to date: 1/8
et: 5.28
mph: 134
new wt. 3340 lbs

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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#22 Post by wikd69 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:31 am

supernova wrote:Lol
Your fighting spring pressure, it's going to be hard! Lol
I wait to set the valves until the motor is in the car and use the starter to turn it over. I hope your not turning it over with the crank balancer bolt. I'v seen people break the bolt trying to turn motors over with it. Although setting the valves on the stand is easy'er.
Thanks, I feel better now. :)

I had visions of something binding somewhere, rings sticking or something like that. And yeah, I had concerns about rolling it using the crank bolt too. Once I get the blower in I use the blower drive to spin the motor by hand - a flex handle with a short 1/2" extension slots into the front of the blower shaft and that makes it easier to turn, though as hard as the motor spins now and blower 10 - 15% overdriven, it'll be just that much harder to turn still. Geez louise.

It'll be interesting to see if the starter I have is going to have problems spinning this thing. I'm running a PowerMaster starter, probably the 160 lb/ft unit on the link below.

http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/1 ... rters.html

The vendor say's it's good to 10.5:1 compression. Well, my compression ratio is not the issue (8.5:1) but these springs are the equivalent I would suspect.

What sort of starter are you other guys with these stout springs (and much higher compression) running ? The PowerMaster website has a selection of starters with a lot more grunt but I'm concerned with clearance on this Moroso oil pan and Hooker long tube setup if I have to go to a bigger starter.
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#23 Post by John_Heard » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:36 am

Wouldn't worry about the springs and the starter. I've been running a low cost "Cheap Willie's" $100 starter for like 6 years, turns it over just fine.

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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#24 Post by wikd69 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:15 pm

John_Heard wrote:Wouldn't worry about the springs and the starter. I've been running a low cost "Cheap Willie's" $100 starter for like 6 years, turns it over just fine.
cool beans, thanks john :thumb:

I'll try and post some video of the startup. If it hand grenades at first firing at least I'll have it on tape, so to speak.
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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supernova
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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#25 Post by supernova » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:33 pm

I'm using a MSD high tq. Starter. Spins my 14.5/1 motor over like the 4 banger in your gandma's old Toyota. LOL :mrgreen:
Blackhoodmafia!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

1972 Nova SS
572 C.I. BBC

Best to date: 1/8
et: 5.28
mph: 134
new wt. 3340 lbs

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wikd69
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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#26 Post by wikd69 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:21 am

Ok, so let me set the stage here.

Sunday nite, I got everything buttoned up, pulled the carb bowls, check floats and needles, replaced gaskets, loaded up with water, getting ready to fire the new motor.

Then I noticed a small puddle of water under the motor. Traced it back to the head on the passenger side where it appeared to be slowly weeping water near nbr 2 plug.

Here's a view of the area on the head, under the inner wheel well ( yep, that's a busted plug - I threaded it in to seal the cylinder while I wire brushed the area)

Image

And here's a close up of the spot I found. Evidently an air bubble in the casting which just now surfaced. This is better than I thought it would be - I was afraid it was a crack. I used a scribe to locate the actual hole, enlarging it a bit. It was so small originally you couldn't actually see it.

The good news I guess, is that we can actually get to it where it is, without having to pull the motor back out. I'm thinking we can just tig a bead across the machined relief here to seal things back up. But GEEZO !!!!!!!!!!!!

*SIGH*

Image
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#27 Post by John_Heard » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:30 am

Thinking out of the box here for a min, Wonder if you could drill and tap that for a set screw and loctite it in place?

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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#28 Post by Craig W. » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:35 am

John_Heard wrote:Thinking out of the box here for a min, Wonder if you could drill and tap that for a set screw and loctite it in place?
We do that pretty often at work when plugging cross drillings. Works great. You can sink it in a little below the surface and peen over the hole and it can't back out. Loctite seals coolant very well.

We use #10 and even as small as #8 or #6 set screws so I think its a good option vs putting high heat into the head.
Craig Watson
2QuickNovas Racing
5.27@130

Sponsors:
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Carnivore Performance
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Rapp Racing
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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#29 Post by wikd69 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:56 am

John_Heard wrote:Thinking out of the box here for a min, Wonder if you could drill and tap that for a set screw and loctite it in place?
Yeah, I've considered that and Rob suggested that as well.

The concern is how thin the casting is around this hole. Using a piece of bent wire, I've been checking out the thickness of the casting here and it's pretty thin.

Craig - I believe that heat won't be a big issue if we tig the area over and around the defect. Not a lot of material stress and heat in the head to fit it. It's more an issue of getting the ride down to a shop so they can tig it for me - I don't tig so I'm out of luck doing this in my shop.

This defect has been there for a long while and has been weeping - the surface has been discolored for some time.

I'm just glad this is not worse - I was convinced it was a crack and would have had to pull the motor back out to pull the head. *ick*
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Carolina Kid
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Re: Ok, new season, new parts...

#30 Post by Carolina Kid » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:02 pm

Just a thought, would J B weld work :?:

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