Cooling / heating question...

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wikd69
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Cooling / heating question...

#1 Post by wikd69 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:43 pm

So to my knowledge, nothing changed in the motor or the mechanicals when I stuffed the motor back in this car this last time.

It's acting really strange with temps. I can pull up to a light and watch the gauge climb to 240 in about 30 seconds.
As soon as I roll away from the light the temp drops way back down again.

I wonder if the water pump is starting to go ? If the bushing is bad enough to pull air that badly at low rpm wouldn't the damn thing leak water at a pretty significant rate ?

The only other thing I can think of is my thermostat is sticking, but I dunno.

Any suggestions ?
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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wikd69
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Re: Cooling / heating question...

#2 Post by wikd69 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:51 pm

I pulled the blower and intake to check the cam out. When the distributor gear shredded a few weeks ago it crunched the gear on my brand new cam, installed back in October and having only 4 track runs and mebbe 300 street miles on it. I'm going to drop it off down at Hutchisons to see if they can clean it up for me, but I think it's prolly toast. And since it's a one piece billet cam, Crane cannot replace the cam gear for me.

Given the above, I re-used the prior cam (same grind, same cam) that I had the roller lifter failure with a couple of years back. When the lifter failed then it scarred up #6 exhaust lobe. I had Hutchison polish it for me and I put it on the shelf as a backup.

Well, I stuffed it in the motor after this most recent distributor / cam gear failure to see if it would stand up.

Nope. I put mebbe a hundred street miles on it and then pulled the intake yesterday to check it. The top of the lobe is starting to flake. Not a lot, but enough. That is telling me that we ended up polishing through the hard face. Sucks. So, new cam will have to be ordered.

Beyond this though, I have a question related to the cooling system.

When the distributor gear failed I was on the freeway at about 70 mph / 3100 rpm, thereabouts. As you might suspect, it was making boost at that rpm and when the distributor lost time there was a rather large boom. This has occurred a number of times in the past - the blower manifold has a popoff plate specifically for this purpose, so I've not worried too much about it.

The problem now is with moisture in the lifter valley. I have a minor bit of emulsification occurring under the intake manifold and it's bit of concern. I was losing a little water from the radiator and now it's exhibiting this weird behavior where it spikes in temp over a very short time frame but then as rpm's build, the temps drop right back down.

The emulsification could be due to leakage around the water ports on the intake - I didn't specifically seal them when I laid the manifold the last time so it could be a bit of seepage into the lifter valley.

But what has me concerned is whether or not I might have blown a head gasket when that distributor lit things up in all of the open ports and caused the big bang.

How likely is it that I'm mebbe dealing with a head sealing issue ? Did the out of time detonation in maybe multiple cylinders lift the head enough to stretch the studs ? I run FelPro MLS, .041 thick and I'm using ARP studs with these aluminum darts. If I need to, I can re-torgue the heads while I have the motor opened up, but does the crowd think ?

As you prolly guess, I do not want to have to pull these heads. It'll mean the motor has to come back out of the car and will be another few hundred dollars in gaskets, etc. I'm already gonna have to spring for a new cam at $400+. Ouch.

The fun factor on this sumbitch is starting to wear a little thin.
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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wikd69
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Re: Cooling / heating question...

#3 Post by wikd69 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:06 pm

K, lemme try this again - I was hoping for some response from the brain trust...

How likely is it that I'm mebbe dealing with a head sealing issue ? Did the out of time detonation in maybe multiple cylinders lift the head enough to stretch the studs ? I run FelPro MLS, .041 thick and I'm using ARP studs with these aluminum darts. If I need to, I can re-torgue the heads while I have the motor opened up, but does the crowd think ?
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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mytmouz
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Re: Cooling / heating question...

#4 Post by mytmouz » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:21 am

It is possible. A handy tool is one of the mini cameras on a flexible wand to check the tops of the pistons through the plug holes. Clean is bad...
Trucks are for haulin...

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wikd69
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Re: Cooling / heating question...

#5 Post by wikd69 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:15 am

mytmouz wrote:It is possible. A handy tool is one of the mini cameras on a flexible wand to check the tops of the pistons through the plug holes. Clean is bad...
Thanks for the response.

I do have one of those - I'll check that.
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

bracketchev1221
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Location: Mountville PA

Re: Cooling / heating question...

#6 Post by bracketchev1221 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:19 am

2 things you can try is look for bubbles in the radiator from combustion, or if you know someone at a repair shop with an inspection machine they can test the coolant for combustion gases with the exhaust sniffer.

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wikd69
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Re: Cooling / heating question...

#7 Post by wikd69 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:26 pm

bracketchev1221 wrote:2 things you can try is look for bubbles in the radiator from combustion, or if you know someone at a repair shop with an inspection machine they can test the coolant for combustion gases with the exhaust sniffer.
Thanks for responding Ray :)

Yeah, I didn't even consider the possibility of having head gasket issues until after I'd gotten the motor pulled down and the intake *and* cam sitting on the bench. It was then I noticed the emulsification in the lifter valley. I did at one time own a hydro tester though - place the test unit over the open radiator neck to test for hydrocarbons. I lent it to a 'friend' and it never returned.

Now though I'm kind of in a spot. Motor is still in the car, blower off, intake off, top end (rockers, etc,) off, water pump, timing set and cam out. Essentially the long block is bolted up to headers, motor mounts and the trans.

Do I go ahead and try pulling the heads to replace head gaskets ? Do that in the car ? Pull the damn motor out yet again ? I don't even know if I have head sealing issue and it's a huge pain in the ass to re-assemble everything to do a running test. :smt005 :smt005

I'll think on it some more, but it's looking like it may be prudent to just pull the motor out and pull the heads again. *sigh*

Remind me again: When does the fun start with this stuff ? :mrgreen:
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Bruce69Camaro
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Re: Cooling / heating question...

#8 Post by Bruce69Camaro » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:21 am

At least someone didn't post that you should trade your Camaro in on a Chevelle...but give him time :roll:

Good luck Harry, sorry you're going through this BUT you'll get past this and you'll be out driving it soon enough.

I know you will.
Those who think they know it all have no way of finding out they don't......... :scratch:

bracketchev1221
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:59 pm
Location: Mountville PA

Re: Cooling / heating question...

#9 Post by bracketchev1221 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:48 am

wikd69 wrote:
bracketchev1221 wrote:2 things you can try is look for bubbles in the radiator from combustion, or if you know someone at a repair shop with an inspection machine they can test the coolant for combustion gases with the exhaust sniffer.
Thanks for responding Ray :)

Yeah, I didn't even consider the possibility of having head gasket issues until after I'd gotten the motor pulled down and the intake *and* cam sitting on the bench. It was then I noticed the emulsification in the lifter valley. I did at one time own a hydro tester though - place the test unit over the open radiator neck to test for hydrocarbons. I lent it to a 'friend' and it never returned.

Now though I'm kind of in a spot. Motor is still in the car, blower off, intake off, top end (rockers, etc,) off, water pump, timing set and cam out. Essentially the long block is bolted up to headers, motor mounts and the trans.

Do I go ahead and try pulling the heads to replace head gaskets ? Do that in the car ? Pull the damn motor out yet again ? I don't even know if I have head sealing issue and it's a huge pain in the ass to re-assemble everything to do a running test. :smt005 :smt005

I'll think on it some more, but it's looking like it may be prudent to just pull the motor out and pull the heads again. *sigh*

Remind me again: When does the fun start with this stuff ? :mrgreen:
Being that far along, I would risk pulling the heads in the car. You are right, that it is not worth having to put it all together to test it. But you can try a compression test or a leak down and see if you find an abnormal cylinder.

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