Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

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wikd69
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Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

#1 Post by wikd69 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:20 pm

Hey all :)

Been gone awhile, heads down earning a living and saving up my lunch money, haven't been doing much with the hot rod until the last month or two. After a lot of thinking, I finally convinced myself to make the leap and I'm waiting on delivery of a new 540 short block from Shafiroff. Dart Big-M, Callies, all the cool stuff. I'll swap my current top end and the new 871 over when I get the old motor out and apart. One of my next years projects is to rebuild and sell the little motor - that'll hopefully help pay for part of this new gear.

Gonna make the leap to EFI as well. I'm looking at the Holley Dominator ECU - it does everything you can imagine and lots of things I know nothing about, but it looks like it'll meet any conceivable EFI, data logger or instrumentation need I might think up. I'm thinking I'll go with an injector plate on top of the blower with two 4150 style throttle bodies on top of that. I still have a lot of stuff to figure out but it'll keep me busy this winter.

I'm sorting through what wiring harnesses I'll need and what I need to retro-fit into my recent re-wiring scheme, so I have a bunch of work to do before I ever make noise again. We just put in hard fuel lines, supply and return, so that parts done. Now I need to swap out the old fuel pump and regulator and gear up for EFI demand. Should be fun - I'll post some pix as I get them :)

Howz everybody been ? I've got some catching up to do with posts to the forum - I'll browse through them as time permits. Most importantly tho, I see that FrankenNova is no longer - congrats on the paint Chris, that looks awesome !
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Re: Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

#2 Post by John_Heard » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:45 pm

Woo Hoo, sounds like Santa's coming early to Harry's!

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ytnova
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Re: Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

#3 Post by ytnova » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:25 pm

Congrats on the efi switch harry, if you have any questions about the holley stuff, feel free to ask. It can be very intimidating at first, but once you get a handle on it, it is very user friendly. I have the holley HP myself which uses the same software, the biggest difference between the two is the lack of inputs and outputs with the HP.
I am not really sure what the question is, but I am pretty sure the answer is Big Block.

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wikd69
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Re: Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

#4 Post by wikd69 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:21 pm

Image

Mocking up the new plate and throttle bodies. I'm going with 16 x 84 lb injectors - this large and this many injectors will keep them down in the lower part of their duty cycle and still give me lots of head room to make more power as needed. I figure that if I can't make enough horsepower with just this 871 I can add an N20 dry plate on top and let the ECU stage it and manage additional fuel load through the injectors. I think I'm really gonna like the tune-ability of this injection approach :)

I decided to go with these 4500-style throttle bodies instead of an Enderle hat or big Hilborn multi-port throttle bodies. These 4 bbl throttle bodies will make this a lot better behaved on the street. They still flow a ton of air - each of them are rated to flow 2128 cfm - close to 4300 cfm combined. That enough to make a lot of power and still be streetable.

I'm pretty well setup for the new fuel system and I have my wiring harness stuff sorted out. Now it's just gonna be all the work in laying out wiring and sorting it all out. I have some new hoses to make and a new fuel pump to mount, but it's pretty much figured out.

I still have yet to pull the old motor. I need to get it on the stand and pull the top end apart. I need to get the heads into the machinist to get them freshened up and then I can hang the new short block and start building the new motor. I got the new manifold port-matched to a FELPRO 1275 gasket to match my heads and they should flow pretty well.

This build should turn out to be pretty grumpy :)

I'll post pics as I get more stuff underway.
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Re: Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

#5 Post by John_Heard » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:49 pm

Those look cool on there, you don't really see too many EFI blowers like that setup.

It'll be interesting to see how it runs, I never can get over how much larger CFM you can go with EFI throttle bodies as compared to carb.

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wikd69
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Re: Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

#6 Post by wikd69 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:10 pm

http://www.facebook.com/BigrobEntertain ... 2733815209

Well, there is this guy ^ - if you watch the Street Race stuff on Velocity <?> you'll have seen him run. He was on their big CashDays episode. He's on Facebook as well at https://www.facebook.com/Hpthe55. It's a beautiful car.

He's running basically my setup (540 with a blower and the kinsler 16 injector plate with dual throttle bodies) though with a lot bigger blower (14-71 vs my 871) *and* I think he's running alcohol. And you thought *I* had problems with wanting horsepower :mrgreen: :thumb:

Image

I haven't ordered it yet but I think I'm gonna go with the big Hilborn dually scoop. I was looking for something else <*everybody* runs that BDS labelled Hilborn style dual-dominator scoop> but there's not too much variety available. MJB Engineering makes a nice high-flow, dual filter setup that would work, but I don't think it would look right on the Camaro. So, I'll prolly just go with that BDS dually scoop.
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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wikd69
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Re: Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

#7 Post by wikd69 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:24 pm

ytnova wrote:Congrats on the efi switch harry, if you have any questions about the holley stuff, feel free to ask. It can be very intimidating at first, but once you get a handle on it, it is very user friendly. I have the holley HP myself which uses the same software, the biggest difference between the two is the lack of inputs and outputs with the HP.
Sorry, meant to reply sooner :)

Yeah, the Dominator and HP ECU's are the same, except for number of inputs and outputs each can handle. I really debated about which to buy, but I figured I'd be out to lunch if after all this work effort I discovered I didn't have enough option in adding stuff down the road. So, with permission from mama, I opted for the Dominator :thumb:

And thanks for the offer to help - I'm sure I'm gonna have questions before I get done with this. I'd love to be able to take this to a shop with an engine dyno to really get it dialed in and tuned right, but it's just not gonna be possible - too involved and waaaaay too much $$$$. So I'll have to get it going initially in my own shop, play with it a bit to tweak things, and then do the chassis dyno thing to really get a good look at the tune under WOT. I don't really have any other way to dial this thing in in a real world setting - you just can't apply this much grunt on the street to do trial-n-error tuning under load. There's always Friday nite TNT sessions down at my local track, and I'm sure I'll be doing some of that, but there's a lot to this and I'm gonna have to feel my way around in the dark for awhile. So like I said, I really appreciate being able to come to you with questions :)

Stay tuned - I'm gonna try and not commit too many idiot moves as I blunder through this :scratch: :roll:
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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wikd69
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Re: Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

#8 Post by wikd69 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:13 pm

Got air flow ?

Will run 16 x 48 lb injectors in two stages, left and right. The first stage of 8 will handle idle up to mid-range and the second stage of 8 will come in at 90% duty cycle on stage 1. Each stage is good for around 700 hp or 1,300 to 1,400 hp total, assuming the heads will flow enough boost. The bottom end will handle far more grunt - I think the bottleneck will be airflow out of the supercharger and through the heads. An 871 can only make so much usable boost, even annodized with teflon. You reach a point of diminishing returns making lots of boost - heat leads to detonation which is very bad thing for blower builds.

Image

Image
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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John_Heard
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Re: Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

#9 Post by John_Heard » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:54 pm

Looks like fun!

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Hitchcock
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Re: Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

#10 Post by Hitchcock » Tue May 03, 2016 12:22 pm

Holy crap, that looks bad ass! Got any more picture or updates?
73 Vette, moly back half
Pump gas 496
Two Pro Systems 950's
Chance 6000 converter

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wikd69
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Re: Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

#11 Post by wikd69 » Wed May 18, 2016 1:22 am

Here's the new competition manifold I picked up from BDS. With this unit I get the front burst panel I wanted for the new build but I also lose the front water jacket passages and thermostat accommodation with this version of the manifold. So, time to improvise...

As delivered the manifold front internal water risers coming off the heads are only about 13/16" in diameter and feed 1" NPT ports exiting the front of the head. Not nearly enough water flow...

I took the manifold down and had the machine shop do a couple of plunge cuts with an end mill to siamese both vertical water passages. This really opened them up a lot.

Image

Next, I had Mike tig these 1 1/4" water necks on the front of the manifold instead of threading in the much more restrictive 1" bungs. I'm getting a remote thermostat collector built to run both hoses to.

Image

I'm pretty happy with the way this turned out. This should flow more water than the street version of the manifold allows, so I think it'll do the job.

Next up is building new fuel hoses for the top end and mounting the new fuel pump...
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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John_Heard
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Re: Hey guys, I'm back in the shop...

#12 Post by John_Heard » Wed May 18, 2016 9:15 am

Yeah that ought to flow more than enough water I'd think!

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