Nitrous Solenoid Question, Edelbrock

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Ron69SS · #1 Post by **Ron69SS** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:45 pm

Hey guys,

You all probably don't know me, but I do post occasionally in the suspension section.

I am in the process of biting the bullet and am installing an Edelbrock Perf RPM plate system on my Nova.

Got it all wired and tested the solenoids with the fuel off and nitrous off just to make sure they activate. All was well.
So, I removed the nitrous line from the plate to the solenoid, tunrned the bottle on and activated it. Nothing.

The fuel solenoid is clicking, they are of course wired in parallel. But nothing from the nitrous solenoid.

The bottle had been in tha sun while I was wiring, indicated pressure was 1100. So I turned the bottle valve closed, and bled the pressure down to 975. Still nothing. Bled it down to 800.....then it started working.

Of course the solenoids are connected to the relay.

Fired the car up to make sure the batt voltage was 13.8....no change.

I think I have a bad brand new solenoid?
Anyone heard of this?
Tried to call Edelbrock and they aparrently are still on Labor Day vacation....the phone message says call after the holliday...which was yesterday.

I bought the system from Jegs....but I'd like Edelbrock to send me a replacement solenoid. Otherwise i have to go through Jegs and that will burn a week plus in time.

Coulkd there be anything I'm missing here?

Ron

doctor408 · #2 Post by **doctor408** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:08 pm

talk to steve johnson @ edelbrock or you can catch him on the nitrous tech furums @ nmra.com

#3 Post by **John_Heard** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:17 pm

What's the voltage at the solenoid? How do you have them grounded? Low voltage or a poor ground could be causing them to not open.

I was talking to a guy yesterday that burnt up 4 engines before they discovered that their voltage was dropping so much during a pass that their fuel solenoids were shutting off, but not the nitrous solenoids.

Sounds like you might be having a wiring/voltage drop issue. The reason I say that is the solenoid did finally open at 800 so that means the coil in it is working.

mytmouz · #4 Post by **mytmouz** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:35 pm

It could be a bad 'noid, also. I have in my possession a brand new edelbrock nitrous solenoid that clicks but doesn't work. It came in a kit that was new and unopened but changed hands several times, so I don't know how to warranty it.

Ron69SS · #5 Post by **Ron69SS** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:23 pm

John_Heard wrote:What's the voltage at the solenoid? How do you have them grounded? Low voltage or a poor ground could be causing them to not open.

I was talking to a guy yesterday that burnt up 4 engines before they discovered that their voltage was dropping so much during a pass that their fuel solenoids were shutting off, but not the nitrous solenoids.

Sounds like you might be having a wiring/voltage drop issue. The reason I say that is the solenoid did finally open at 800 so that means the coil in it is working.

I did speak to Edelbrock today. But not the engineer.
I decided I needed to know the voltage right at the solenoids before discussing further.

So, right at the solenoid I get 12V. System voltage at the source is 13.3v. A drop for sure, but I'm using the wiring supplied with the kit and its only 16 GA.

Ground is through a dedicated ground bus under the dash. Connected right to the cage.

Never had any voltages with the car at all.

BTW....voltage measured with a Fluke lab grade DVM.

Seems to me the solenoids should work fine at 12V.

I'll see what they say tomorrow when I call them back.

Ron

Ron69SS · #6 Post by **Ron69SS** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:27 pm

Well,

Edelbrock tells me that I'll need at least 13V at the solenoid to activate it at 1000 or so PSI.

I'll need to figure out where any voltage loss is occuring and try to fix that.
One problem will be if the wiring supplied for the solenoids and relay is part of the voltage drop. It's only 16 GA wire.

With the one wire alternator, my system voltage is not the normal 14.7 or so one would expect.

Who said that a nitrous system install would be easy!

Ron
__________________

Ron69SS · #7 Post by **Ron69SS** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:00 pm

This post sort of died. But....I got everything resolved and finally made a nitrous pass last night. My first ever.

With a 100 shot, the car picked up 6 tenths and 9mph.

So, went from a 10.12 @ 131.5 to a 9.53 @ 140.5

Only got the one pass, it was a busy night.

But what a rush!

Pump gas, and I drove it home.

Ron

#8 Post by **John_Heard** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:28 am

Congrat's on new PB!

What did you end up having to do to fix the voltage issue?

hsutton · #9 Post by **hsutton** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:15 pm

Ron69SS wrote:Well,

Edelbrock tells me that I'll need at least 13V at the solenoid to activate it at 1000 or so PSI.

I'll need to figure out where any voltage loss is occuring and try to fix that.
One problem will be if the wiring supplied for the solenoids and relay is part of the voltage drop. It's only 16 GA wire.

With the one wire alternator, my system voltage is not the normal 14.7 or so one would expect.

Who said that a nitrous system install would be easy!

Ron
__________________

Did you increase the wire size to the solenoid? Voltage is not the only thing you need to be looking at in testing any kind of wiring. Amperage is equally important. While there you need the same size or larger wire for the ground. I recently looked in the catalog and it shows the nitrous solenoid draws appx. (9.2?) amps while the fuel solenoid only draws 1 amp. Naturally the nitrous solenoid is going to fail to work long before the fuel solenoid. Go over to http://svapowerproducts.com and read the tech articles in order to determine what your electrical needs are, this may just save a motor down the road. The man at SVA also has some interesting battery thoughts too. Don't think "red top or yellow top" when making a battery selection.

Ron69SS · #10 Post by **Ron69SS** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:29 pm

I increased all the wiring right up to the solenoids to 12GA. Gnd is also a short 12GA right to my ground stud on the frame.
Voltage increase from where I was ended up to be .9V. So now only a .4V drop from the system voltage.
I do run an alternator.
E=I*R So call E the 1.3.V drop I had. "I" is the two solenoids in parallel....slightly more than 10 amps...and solve for R
R=E/I. That gives the series resistance in the system.

BTW...E = volts
I = current in amps
R = resistance in ohms

I dropped the series resistance from .127 ohms to .04 ohms...approx.
These are small numbers but the source voltage is also small.

It's all pretty simple.
For long runs, run big wire.
Make sure connections are good. Solder when you can.

I was more surprised at the perf increase...than the fact that it worked. I knew it would after re-wiring and testing prior to going to the track.

BTW, Harold. The resistance of the coil and the voltage available dictates the current. The coil resistance is a constant...as long as it doesn't get hot.
So what we can control is the voltage available. Bigger wire ensures the coil voltage is at or near system voltage. I guess you could add a 16V battery....but mine is street driven...not an optimal choice.

Thanks guys.

Ron

#11 Post by **John_Heard** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:59 am

Just a note - and this isn't directed towards Ron more of a general comment. I've heard and seen many nitrous racers have problems with low voltage issues this year. Just throwing a 16volt battery may not cure the issue. Like Ron has pointed out here, wire size, length, connections, on both the hot and ground side is all very important to getting the maximum voltage to your solenoids and is something that can not be overlooked.

Too low voltage and you're going to be chasing things all over the place looking for reasons why solenoid's are dropping out when they shouldn't, inconsistant opening all of which can be fatal on a nitrous motor.

Ron69SS · #12 Post by **Ron69SS** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:59 pm

Well said John,

Thanks.

Ron

Nitrous Solenoid Question, Edelbrock

Nitrous Solenoid Question, Edelbrock

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