Timing Curve

General Gauges, Wiring, Ignition..

Moderator: John_Heard

Message
Author
User avatar
hugger73hatch
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:42 pm

Re: Timing Curve

#16 Post by hugger73hatch » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:00 pm

dadnova wrote:I use the springs and bushings still- MSD
Car starts nice and easy @ 8-10 degrees, cruse around the pits and so on.
By 2500 RPM its at 36-38 degrees.
Works for me.

But that's why the make different cars, different strokes for different folks.

I run an AED 950 HO and have to run the black bushing. Something about their carbs and MSD pro billet disrubutors. I am going to lock it out, hopefully this week and try to get to the track this weekend. Anybody remember exactly how to do the MSD pro billet? I guess I can find it on their website. I can't put my hands on the book right now.
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

User avatar
stroker1
Posts: 333
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Dunn, NC

Re: Timing Curve

#17 Post by stroker1 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:52 pm

Yep, it's simple. Remove all the springs, bushings, clips, weights, etc. Make it naked. Then remove the locking nut from the stud underneath. And now drive the roll pin out of the distributor gear. Lift up on the shaft just enuff to pop the stud out of the curved slotted hole and index the shaft 180 degrees. Now pop the stud into the single round hole and put the lock nut back on. Put roll pin back in the gear and you have it locked out. Now it all moves together, reluctor and rotor are married now. :thumb:
'87 S10 stock suspension, Caltracs, 9" rearend, 1.82 Glide, 383 SBC,
Brodix Track1 Heads, 14:1 compression, 180 shot plate,
2" tube Hussler Headers, 1.38 60ft., 6.20 ET 1/8th, 109 MPH,
Still Tuning, more to come.

User avatar
hugger73hatch
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:42 pm

Re: Timing Curve

#18 Post by hugger73hatch » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:59 pm

stroker1 wrote:Yep, it's simple. Remove all the springs, bushings, clips, weights, etc. Make it naked. Then remove the locking nut from the stud underneath. And now drive the roll pin out of the distributor gear. Lift up on the shaft just enuff to pop the stud out of the curved slotted hole and index the shaft 180 degrees. Now pop the stud into the single round hole and put the lock nut back on. Put roll pin back in the gear and you have it locked out. Now it all moves together, reluctor and rotor are married now. :thumb:
Got it. Thanks. I have been so busy with work and my 6 month old daughter lately, I haven't had much time for the car. I am going to try to get it done this week and try it out.
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

User avatar
hugger73hatch
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:42 pm

Re: Timing Curve

#19 Post by hugger73hatch » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:16 pm

Locked it out today. Don't know if it will make any difference in ET, but I will let everyone know once I get back to track.
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

User avatar
hugger73hatch
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:42 pm

Re: Timing Curve

#20 Post by hugger73hatch » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:21 pm

Well, I made it to the 1/8 mile track tonight and not a very good outing. Unloaded car drove around to staging lanes and started to do my burnout. Car was spitting and popping and carrying on with a terrible mis. Made my pass and got back to the pits. Checked the timing and timing had jumped to 44. I set it at 35 last weekend when I locked the distributor. Started checking some things over and discovered the threads in the intake for the distributor lock down bolt were stripped. I noticed it last weekend and I ran my thread repair tool through it and thought it would be fine, apparently I was wrong.

Anway, we had some good air here tonight, and even with it runing like total crap, I ran a 7.31 @ 93.824. I think I could have made a 7.0 pass easily tonight had it not been for this mistake on my part, so I am pretty sure locking the distributor is whatmy combo wanted. I guess you live and learn. One of these days I am going to get this thing figured out.
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

User avatar
hugger73hatch
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:42 pm

Re: Timing Curve

#21 Post by hugger73hatch » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:42 pm

Ok. I was so frustrated at the track I forgot that my intake has another tapped hole for a distributor lock down on the oposite side, so I have did that. However, I am having some timing issues since I locked out the distributor and now I need some help.

It seems the timing is doing some weird things. At idle (1500 RPM) the timing is reading like 44 degrees advanced. At like 3000 RPM is goes to 34. What the hell is going on with that? The roller cam as a cam button and I don't think it is walking. None of this was happening until I locked the distributor. What's this about phasing the rotor? Is that what I am going to have to do since I locked it out? This is all new to me so your help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Chris
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

User avatar
John_Heard
Site Admin
Posts: 5683
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:20 am
Location: Resume Speed, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Timing Curve

#22 Post by John_Heard » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:55 am

Your timing cover is probably deflecting. Stick a pry bar inbetween the cover and water pump and rev it up holding the cover in place and see if you notice it moving. You might be surprised how hard the cam will push on the cover.

User avatar
hugger73hatch
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:42 pm

Re: Timing Curve

#23 Post by hugger73hatch » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:47 pm

I will check that to see. I have an aftermarket cover on it as well as a metal cam button. The cover was just bought last fall as well as most of the other components when I put this combo together. I just don't understand, b/c I didn't have this problem before.

If it is deflecting, what can be done. I should be able to check this out Monday night.
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

User avatar
stroker1
Posts: 333
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Dunn, NC

Re: Timing Curve

#24 Post by stroker1 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:40 pm

hugger73hatch wrote:I will check that to see. I have an aftermarket cover on it as well as a metal cam button. The cover was just bought last fall as well as most of the other components when I put this combo together. I just don't understand, b/c I didn't have this problem before.

If it is deflecting, what can be done. I should be able to check this out Monday night.
I've been thru this same thing. It's probably timing cover flex. With mine I thought the problem only showed up when I locked it out. But actually the mechanical advance I had in mine was masking the cover flex, and it seemed to be pretty stable before I locked it out. I will only use a rigid cast aluminum cover from now on. Or a billet cover if I could afford it. I had to make a special length button for mine when I went with the cast cover. My roller button was too long for the thicker cover. All you have to do is depth mic the cover in the area of the cam button and make it the same minus about .005" because the end of the cam sits flush with the face of the block. Another option is to machine the cover a little with an end mill and use the roller button. Plunge cut the cover in the area of the button to the correct depth on a milling machine or drill press.
'87 S10 stock suspension, Caltracs, 9" rearend, 1.82 Glide, 383 SBC,
Brodix Track1 Heads, 14:1 compression, 180 shot plate,
2" tube Hussler Headers, 1.38 60ft., 6.20 ET 1/8th, 109 MPH,
Still Tuning, more to come.

User avatar
ytnova
Posts: 735
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:21 am
Location: orlando, florida/ under a hood
Contact:

Re: Timing Curve

#25 Post by ytnova » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:54 am

I used one of the newer cloyes cast aluminum covers. It has an adjustable cam stop made into the front cover and I have no problems with it deflecting.
I am not really sure what the question is, but I am pretty sure the answer is Big Block.

User avatar
hugger73hatch
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:42 pm

Re: Timing Curve

#26 Post by hugger73hatch » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:49 pm

John_Heard wrote:Your timing cover is probably deflecting. Stick a pry bar inbetween the cover and water pump and rev it up holding the cover in place and see if you notice it moving. You might be surprised how hard the cam will push on the cover.
The car is at my dad's shop and I forgot my friggin pry bars, but I did take a look at it. The timing cover does not appear to be moving. Also when I first started it up the timing was dead on at 34*. After the motor got some heat in it is when it started moving. Now I am beginning to wonder if the timing light is off, I am not sure if this is the case or not, so I am going to borrow a buddies tomorrow and check it again :scratch: .

When I use the dial on the light and move it to 34, the timing starts to jump all over the place, like it has a mis in it. sometimes it will even hit the 90* mark on the dampr :scratch: . BTW it is a fluiddampr that I am running, so I don't think it has slipped. This thing is driving me crazy :pissed: .
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

User avatar
BILTIT
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:14 am
Location: Lloydminster,SK, CANADA

Re: Timing Curve

#27 Post by BILTIT » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:30 pm

Many adjustable timing lights do not like aftermarket ignition boxes, what are you running?
1974 Pontiac Ventura, 455P (9.5:1 comp.), 850DP, 3100 ''Tight'' 10'', 3.73's/28x13.5
Upgrading in June:
KRE 310cfm@.550 heads, 10.5 comp., hyd roller, 3800 tight 10'', better rear suspension.
Race Weight: 3750#'s
2007 best: 11.97 at 110 1.65 60ft.

User avatar
hugger73hatch
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:42 pm

Re: Timing Curve

#28 Post by hugger73hatch » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:36 pm

It's a 6al. However, I never had any problem before until I locked the distributor out. That is the only thing I changed. My buddy has one of those high dollar snap on lights, all digital. Maybe I should try that?
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

User avatar
stroker1
Posts: 333
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Dunn, NC

Re: Timing Curve

#29 Post by stroker1 » Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:05 pm

For best results always use a non-dialback timing light and read the timing from the balancer. Still sounds like cover flex could be a problem. It will not have to flex enough to see it. You can't see it flex anyway with it behind the water pump. If it's not flexing and you have a non-dialback light and the timing is still jumping you might want to consider the following: cam walk problem from the button being screwed up, distributor gear in poor shape, too much end play in the distributor, very bad oil pump chatter, or electronic problems.

If it is not jumping around everywhere but only advancing and retarding at a pretty repeatable pattern then I would still think the cam is walking or too much end play up and down in the distributor. Good Luck!

:thumb:
'87 S10 stock suspension, Caltracs, 9" rearend, 1.82 Glide, 383 SBC,
Brodix Track1 Heads, 14:1 compression, 180 shot plate,
2" tube Hussler Headers, 1.38 60ft., 6.20 ET 1/8th, 109 MPH,
Still Tuning, more to come.

User avatar
hugger73hatch
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:42 pm

Re: Timing Curve

#30 Post by hugger73hatch » Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:11 pm

I'm going to try the prybar and different light tomorrow and see if that makes a difference. I don't think it is any of the other things, but I guess it could be. All of that stuff is brand new.
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest