Timing Curve

General Gauges, Wiring, Ignition..

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hugger73hatch
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Re: Timing Curve

#46 Post by hugger73hatch » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:52 pm

Went back today...should have stayed home. Forgot to charge the battery last night, but I only had made 4 passes last week on it so I figured it would be alright. Had hard time starting it at first, because if the locked out timing and I gues the battery not having a full charge. Made it around to staging lanes and got my first time run, ran a 7.07 spinning like crazy out the gate. Came back to pits, when they called us for our second time runs had some more problems starting, but it did start. Made it to the staging lanes shut the car off and there it sat. Got it towed back to the pits and worked on it for about an hour trying to charge the battery with jumper cables, couldn't even get enough juice to get it going that way. Finally backed the timing down and pulled the battery out of my truck to start it so I could get it on the trailer, fouled plugs and all, In the meantime...brand new friggin blackberry phone, just got it yesterday (not even 24 hours prior) fell out of the holster onto the pavement and broke the screen :pissed: . Something told me this morning to stay at home. I guess I should have listened to the voices.

Anyway I will be ordering a starter saver this week. I will also make dam sure the battery is charged well the next time I go. On top of that I will be getting myself a generator before next season so I can charge the battery between rounds. I swear sometimes I wonder why I do this to myself. Anybody else ever feel that way or is it just me?
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

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Bob West
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Re: Timing Curve

#47 Post by Bob West » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:08 pm

I run mine locked out with no start retard, no issues, spins like crazy but only 10.5-1 with a 108lsa cam.
72 Malibu-Nov. '08-1.329-3.995-6.280@106.94-9.988@131.62
best 60ft to date- 1.319
http://www.dragtimes.com/1972-Chevrolet ... -5251.html

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hugger73hatch
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Re: Timing Curve

#48 Post by hugger73hatch » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:51 pm

Mine is 13-1 and makes a lot of cranking compression. The cam is on a 106 LSA. I am ordering the starter saver for sure.
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

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sc racing
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Re: Timing Curve

#49 Post by sc racing » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:23 pm

Dont you have a start/retard box? It will pull out 20* for starting.

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hugger73hatch
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Re: Timing Curve

#50 Post by hugger73hatch » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:37 am

Going to get one this week.
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

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hugger73hatch
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Re: Timing Curve

#51 Post by hugger73hatch » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:40 pm

Anyone that runs the starter saver have problems getting the car to start? This thing has been a PITA to start since I put it on. Runs fine when it starts, but damn. I'm almost to the point I'm gonna say f it and get a crank trigger. I guess I need to phase the rotor? Anybody with some insight on this?
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

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Re: Timing Curve

#52 Post by John_Heard » Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:50 am

Whats it doing? How much timing retard is it putting in? The one I've got takes 10 degrees out.

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hugger73hatch
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Re: Timing Curve

#53 Post by hugger73hatch » Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:54 am

I have it set up to take 10 degrees out. It is fully advanced to 36*. I also have the 6AL and starter saver on a switch. I first let the motor crank over several times and then hit the switch. Some times it acts like it is mixing the firing up and it will "pop" back, almost sounds like an explosion or a backfire. Once it starts it runs fine. Also some times when I throw the switch the starter barely wants to crank it, kind of like the starter saver is not pulling the timing out.
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

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sc racing
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Re: Timing Curve

#54 Post by sc racing » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:47 pm

Your only taking out 10* so its still trying to start with 26* initial ? Your engine is 13:1 , I would have it pull out 20* and dont use the switch just let it start normally.Which starter do you have?

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hugger73hatch
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Re: Timing Curve

#55 Post by hugger73hatch » Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:24 pm

sc racing wrote:Your only taking out 10* so its still trying to start with 26* initial ? Your engine is 13:1 , I would have it pull out 20* and dont use the switch just let it start normally.Which starter do you have?
Ok, I will try that and see if it makes a difference. The starter is a powermaster mini high torque starter, but it is starting to get some age on it.
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

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stroker1
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Re: Timing Curve

#56 Post by stroker1 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:19 pm

Hang in there pal! I've been through exactly what you're going thru to a T. That cam, locked out timing, and a starter that isn't up to the task will make you so frustrated it ain't funny. Also running without an alternator sucks. Took me a long time to own up to it, but an alternator is important for all the electronics and electric components. I run an electric water pump so I got myself one of the alternator mounts from Alan Grove components for electric water pumps and solved most of my problems. Then I started retarding my timing and spraying nitrous. And the retarded timing along with 10 deg. max of start retard in my Mallory box I can finally crank my junk.

Oh, and a high torque gear reduction starter from a company Bob West recomended to me. It was real cheap and has been a blessing to my poor flywheel.
'87 S10 stock suspension, Caltracs, 9" rearend, 1.82 Glide, 383 SBC,
Brodix Track1 Heads, 14:1 compression, 180 shot plate,
2" tube Hussler Headers, 1.38 60ft., 6.20 ET 1/8th, 109 MPH,
Still Tuning, more to come.

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hugger73hatch
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Re: Timing Curve

#57 Post by hugger73hatch » Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:53 pm

stroker1 wrote:Hang in there pal! I've been through exactly what you're going thru to a T. That cam, locked out timing, and a starter that isn't up to the task will make you so frustrated it ain't funny. Also running without an alternator sucks. Took me a long time to own up to it, but an alternator is important for all the electronics and electric components. I run an electric water pump so I got myself one of the alternator mounts from Alan Grove components for electric water pumps and solved most of my problems. Then I started retarding my timing and spraying nitrous. And the retarded timing along with 10 deg. max of start retard in my Mallory box I can finally crank my junk.

Oh, and a high torque gear reduction starter from a company Bob West recomended to me. It was real cheap and has been a blessing to my poor flywheel.
Yeah, it is just frustrating. One of these days I will get this thing figured out. Do you have a link to the starter? I may try to get a new one. Also, I currently run an alternator, but I don't know if it is really doing what it needs to do. According to my volt guage it is charging right at 14 volts, so I think that is ok. I have not been charging the battery between rounds as I have not had a generator, but I just got a honda 3500 that needs some carburetor work and a new gas tank. It was free so I hope I can get that runing before the spring. I am just trying to get the car to run in the high 6s in the 1/8 and possibly a 10.9xx before we quit racing here.
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

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stroker1
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Re: Timing Curve

#58 Post by stroker1 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:18 am

Here is the link I got from Bob West. I have been well satisfied with their starter.

http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/
'87 S10 stock suspension, Caltracs, 9" rearend, 1.82 Glide, 383 SBC,
Brodix Track1 Heads, 14:1 compression, 180 shot plate,
2" tube Hussler Headers, 1.38 60ft., 6.20 ET 1/8th, 109 MPH,
Still Tuning, more to come.

bracketracer
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Re: Timing Curve

#59 Post by bracketracer » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:38 am

Hugger, Where is your battery?? What size wire is running to the starter and how is it grounded?? How old is the Battery??

With a good battery and a gear reduction starter you should have no real problem spinning
you 408 over even with 13 to 1 comp...I would not spin it over than flip the Ign on as that
can cause problems..Turn the ign on then spin it over..

I had a 454 with 14.5 to 1 comp and a gear red starter with timing locked out
at 38* and never had a problem....I used red top Optima battery...

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hugger73hatch
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Re: Timing Curve

#60 Post by hugger73hatch » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:05 pm

bracketracer wrote:Hugger, Where is your battery?? What size wire is running to the starter and how is it grounded?? How old is the Battery??

With a good battery and a gear reduction starter you should have no real problem spinning
you 408 over even with 13 to 1 comp...I would not spin it over than flip the Ign on as that
can cause problems..Turn the ign on then spin it over..

I had a 454 with 14.5 to 1 comp and a gear red starter with timing locked out
at 38* and never had a problem....I used red top Optima battery...

Battery is in the back. I run an optima yellow top that I have had for 2 years. I was kind of wondering about the ground. The battery is grounded to a support bar in the trunk/hatch area. I will have to check to size of the wire running to the starter, but if memory serves me correct I am thinking it is like a 4 guage wire going to hot and the switched wire is something pretty small, maybe 18 guage or something like that. I guess that could cause some problems too? If so what gauge wire do ya'll recomend going to the starter? I will start with these things and see if it makes a difference.
73 Nova Hatchback, 408 Small Block 13-1, Iron Heads, 6.972 @ 98.362, 1.468 60', 3450 lbs, still tuning
28 x 9 Slick, N/A

http://www.esquireservices.net

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