Brake problem

[supernova]

I have a brake problem that I can't seem to solve.
I put all new brakes on the Nova, lines and everything. It has a Strange master cylinder for manual brakes that I can't seem to get to work right. I have to pump it to get it to hold pressure. If I let it sit the peddle will go all the way to the floor until I pump it a few times. My brother says that he thinks the rod from the peddle to the master cylinder is to short and is not pushing the M/C plunger in far enough. It will pump up and hold but once I let up off the peddle it will go to the floor again.

Anybody have an idea of what the crap is going on here........

[BracketNova]

I'm no expert, but don't you need those residual valves in there for "pedal feel"

http://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/260-1874/10002/-1


my .02...didn't see them in your pic

[sg7365]

Still sounds like you have air in the system. Or sometimes just a bad off the shelf M/C..

Do the normal bleeding.

First off; Make sure the rear brake to drums are correctly set. Not too loose and not tight.
Your auto adjuster will do that. Just so that they lightly drag.
I like to tighten them up, back the adjuster off until loose and tighten till they just drag.
I assume your running disc in the front. Make sure the bleeders are facing up and not down.

Did you bench bleed the master cylinder and bleed the air out according to the instructions they gave you. It takes patients but it all helps in the end.

Any leaks in the system?
Are your disc brakes new or wheel cylinders new. If not-make sure they move freely and don't get cocked in their bores.
Are you using a hand vac pump or having a buddy pump it up. I like to use a vac pump. Machine or hand held. I converted an A/C vac pump for this---that hand stuff gets old after a while--but use a vac gage while your doing it-I like 10-15hg or so. Not 29"!!! LOL
Nice and easy is the way to go. To fast of a vacuum rate and air bubbles will be caused.
When I bleed them I remove the top(s) off the master cylinder or keep them loose so as not to cause a vacuum on the caps-then when low or rather 1/2 full I top them off to 3/4 level or so. Not all the way.
Use only good clean brake fluid. Not synthentic-it will damage the other rubber parts and if you have-it must all be flushed out with good clean brake fluid. For the race cars I like using the wilwood hi-temp 570 brake fluid. My street El-Camino just uses the good old Dot-3.

Keep trying until you get it Hard!!!
I put a lot of stuff down that you probably heard already but sometimes we miss one thing or two.

Ron

[supernova]

Let me tell more of the set up.
It has new calipers, disc's front and rear. All new lines. Is bleed with a power bleeder. Ran a gallon of fluid through it and at this point has no air in the lines.

At this point i'm stumped.

[Bruce69Camaro]

Chris,

Like mentioned, did you bench bleed the M/C first?

Strange supplies the pushrod, did you use that one or the factory one?

Another thing you may want to check, which may or may not have anything to do with this, but on my car, the brake pedal has two holes in it for the clevis pin. I was told you want to use the top hole for manual brakes.

On my setup, I have to pump it one or two times, but the pedal then gets hard.

I'm using Strange B3360, M/C w/ 1.032" bore, Strange rear brakes and a 11" disc's up front and also put an
adjustable proportioning valve in there too. I run 3/16" lines and then #3 braided steel lines to brakes.

Bruce

[John_Heard]

Sounds like a Bad seal in the master... Sorry...

(Shouldn't need to use residual valves on his setup)

[supernova]

The M/C was bleed. I did not use the rod that came with the M/C as it is the same length as the one in the car. I'm not sure about the peddle having 2 hole for the clevis, I've not been under the dash looking at it for months. I will look at it today and even chage to the supplied rod although I don't think it has anything to do with it.
I am using the 1 1/8 M/C recomended by Strange for the peddle ratio the car has.

This is the 3rd M/C I have put in the car and I get the same thing out of all of them.

????????????????????????????????????????????!

[Bruce69Camaro]

John is probably right on, after I bought my Strange, I started hearing that a lot of racers had leaking issues and actually swapped them out for Wilwood units.

Good luck buddy, hope you get it worked out.

Bruce

[John_Heard]

Just something to think about, next one don't bench bleed it before putting it on the car. I have a theory that sometimes bench bleeding a M/C will push the seals past the "good" sealing surface and screw up the seal. Just try bleeding it on the car instead where the travel is restricted.

[sc racing]

Take your lines off the m/c and plug the ports. Then press the pedal and see if you have the same results if you do its a bad master if not plug off the front try again and so on. Also when bleeding did you tap the calipers with a rubber mallot? its recommended to get the "trapped" air out . Just some suggestions to try.

[Bruce69Camaro]

I was concerned about something that SG7365 stated in his reply.

He said not to use synthetic brake fluid.

After looking around I found a posting and in it this guy makes a comment that "all brake fluid is synthetic and not to confuse sythetic with silicone. Even if it is not stated on the bottle, all brake fluid is synthetic."

Any thoughts?

Bruce

[Pegasus]

Just something to think about, next one don't bench bleed it before putting it on the car. I have a theory that sometimes bench bleeding a M/C will push the seals past the "good" sealing surface and screw up the seal. Just try bleeding it on the car instead where the travel is restricted.

When I owned my shop I had trouble with guys doing this. When bench bleeding they would push to deep. Just go deep enough to get air out of both lines. I know Im saying the same thing John said but I think he got right.

Buy a good " CHUTE " its makes stopping as much fun as starting. LOL

[supernova]

You know Bruce, I think your right! My brother is a ASE master tech and has told me that before. He's coming by to take a look at and maybe he find what it is.

[supernova]

Just something to think about, next one don't bench bleed it before putting it on the car. I have a theory that sometimes bench bleeding a M/C will push the seals past the "good" sealing surface and screw up the seal. Just try bleeding it on the car instead where the travel is restricted.

When I owned my shop I had trouble with guys doing this. When bench bleeding they would push to deep. Just go deep enough to get air out of both lines. I know Im saying the same thing John said but I think he got right.

Buy a good " CHUTE " its makes stopping as much fun as starting. LOL

I learned that the hard way yrs ago. Now I just push the plunger in a little until al the air is out and nothin but fluid flows

[sunsation540]

Take your lines off the m/c and plug the ports. Then press the pedal and see if you have the same results if you do its a bad master if not plug off the front try again and so on. Also when bleeding did you tap the calipers with a rubber mallot? its recommended to get the "trapped" air out . Just some suggestions to try.Quote....
try his sugestion first the after market brake deal is tough do the calipers have 4 bleeders? if so did you bleed both uppers on each wheel?? block both off at the master cyl if gets rock hard re install front or rear one at a time this is the best answer.. and how i solve brake issues as well as 4 pressure guages,i do alot of this sort of thing.. WEEEE