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Suspension Tuning, Troubleshooting, Design and Discussion

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JeffMcKC
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Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:35 pm

#16 Post by JeffMcKC » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:37 am

The spring cant stick, the shock might just unbolt the bottom and see if it comes up, if its the tire you better hit the alignment machine and check setback and thrust angles
2007 HotRod's Drag Week 2007 SB/NA Champ
9.95@134, 1.30 60' Stock Susp. Drag Radials
5 Days 5 Tracks make one Weak

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Dave Morgan
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#17 Post by Dave Morgan » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:25 am

Brakeless,
You've been given very good advice about NOT cutiing the Trick springs. They are made of the second worse material known (chrome-silicone) and will settle after some time. If you cut them too early, they may settle later, then the front of your car will set too low. The concept behind them, however, is excellent.
The advice about adding a rear anti-roll bar is also good. Make it as stiff as you can find.
One of the other cats suggested the rear suspension may be holding you back and asked if you are sure everything was installed correctly. There are are a couple of easy ways to inspect for a bound-up suspension:
If you have access to corner scales, weigh the car empty and with you in it. When you get in the car, you should see a portion, maybe 30% of your weight, distributed to the passenger-side of the car. If your entire weight, or nearly your entire weight, is placed on the driver's-side tires, then you probably have some bind in the suspension.
You can also check for bind by removing the spring on any corner of the car and support the suspension with a floor jack, placing a bathroom scale between the jack and the suspension. Slowly and smoothly jack the suspension up through it's travel, watching the scale closely. If, at some point in the travel, the scale spikes in it's reading, you have bind in that suspension position. Neither technique will tell you where the bind is, but they will give you an indication as to the nature of your problem and in the case of the floo jack/scale technique, what poistion ths suspension is in when it is in bind.
Stay Tuned,
Dave
Author of "Doorslammers: The Chassisbook"
Drag Racing Chassis Seminars and Videos

nobrakes
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:40 pm

#18 Post by nobrakes » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:52 pm

I already have the ARB installed. I definetely appreciate the responses. I will try your suggestion Dave w/ the bathroom scale. I replaced rear, control arms, spherical bushings and rear springs all at 1 time. Before I had no troubles w/ 7.5 and stock set-up so I'm confident it can be resolved. I looked through the drivetrain section and saw Eric's post about the torque converter selection. I have what seems to be a fairly similar combo. He was going from 10in. (3500-3800) to a 8in.(5000) converter yet I've been told to replace my 8"ATI with my TCI 10" to get my car to the low 11's. I shift the car at approx 7k. Please take a quick look at my combo page 1 and give me an idea. Would you swap converters. Could the loose converter be costing me 1 sec and 10MPH. I need some advice. I Know there would be some bugs to work out but I'm at that point where disappointment is eating at me. HELP

sc racing
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#19 Post by sc racing » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 pm

Who made your 9" housing are you sure the upper mounts are in the correct location?IMO I would shift that motor around 6500 or lower .I had a 406with a 254*/259* solid cam,flat tops,cast iron chevy head,1800 stall 3500lb camaro with bolt on slapper bars it would only 60' in the 1.75-1.85 range and it still went 11.75-11.80s @114 I shifted at 6200.You definitly have something going on because your combo should be a lot faster.

nobrakes
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#20 Post by nobrakes » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:46 pm

The rear was taken out of a friends car who needed money fast. I can eliminate the control arm attatchments as the culprit but I also noticed that the rear coil spring is touching the control arm bolt . I'm going to check that the ARB isn't getting hung up with the spring. ANY ideas on the converter issue from above. If the converter stalls higher than the torque peak would that kill performance correct? Stalling at 5k and shifting at 6800-7000 is that enough usable RPM?

sc racing
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#21 Post by sc racing » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:26 pm

I think your right about the converter you wouldnt want it to stall above your peak torque. Do you have dyno sheets on the motor? I would stick with the ATI but send it to them with all your info and have it built for the car dont go buy an off the shelf converter.BTW I put that same cam in a 355 with iron heads and still shifted around 6200 it was in my 85 firebird and at 3000lbs best of 1.50 60' and 10.90@123

nobrakes
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#22 Post by nobrakes » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:09 am

Well I put the 10'' tci converter in car and a borrowed demon 750 mech secondary. The bu went 11.95 at 115 shifting at 6700. I remembered sc racing's advice and tried 6200 and went 11.70 at 118mph w/ a 1.73 60ft. My issue with rear suspension was arb/tailpipe interference. Thank you all very much I started to feel discouraged but getting suggestions was a boost. Sc racing great call on the shift point reply. Unfortanetly I'm broke and have not done anything to the suspension. I haven't even got the front sway bar off yet.
Looking at the mph I feel maybe I could go 10's on motor. I have only removed ac and p/s and fiberglass hood as far as weight. I've been told removing tailpipes would be worth some hp. I plan on fiberglass bumpers and taking some weight out. I'm spinning the 10.5 slick that bulge bad on 7'' rims. Sway bar is hurting 60 ft. This car has absolutely no tuning.
You think it might have a 10.99 in it with these issues addressed and some tuning? Thanks for everything. You guys really motivated me and the car picking up 12 mph w/ carb and conv. is promising. FYI 11-1 pump gas motor.

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Bob West
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#23 Post by Bob West » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:40 am

I'd leave the motor alone and work on that suspension, it aint easy, its dirty, but there is alot of e.t. in suspension tuning. It doesnt cost much either. I have my ARB set at neutral with my weight in the drivers seat. Removing the front swaybar costs nothing, and I'd definately get some wider wheels or narrower slicks with the right offset.
72 Malibu-Nov. '08-1.329-3.995-6.280@106.94-9.988@131.62
best 60ft to date- 1.319
http://www.dragtimes.com/1972-Chevrolet ... -5251.html

nobrakes
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#24 Post by nobrakes » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:24 pm

I agree that with such a terrible ride there should be alot in the suspension and weight loss. You think I have enough motor to get in the 10's ? I also have a th400 in the car. I have a good th350 just no brake. How much would I gain th350 vs. th400? How much of an improvement should I see from removing the sway bar? Thanks!!!!!!!!

sc racing
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#25 Post by sc racing » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:49 pm

Get the front sway bar off its FREE.
Put the battery in the trunk (pass side rear) almost FREE.
If you have a good TH350 try it.Its also FREE.IMO the brake makes you consistant not faster.Maybe it would 60' better by " shocking" the rear suspension harder . I would try the 350. I bet you see 1.5 tenths.
Go trhrough the entire car front to back and take out every extra nut,bolt,clip,bracket ,sound proofing,etc etc. 10s will come but if it really weighs 3600 you got to get 400 out of it.

nobrakes
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#26 Post by nobrakes » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:04 pm

sc -shifting at 6200 I picked up 2 tenths and 3 mph. Good call!!!
I weigh 275 and that hurts. Do you think a 850 carb would help?

jim-ss409
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#27 Post by jim-ss409 » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:22 pm

I punched in your top speed of 118 into an et calculator... http://www.wallaceracing.com/etcalc.php
It predicted an et of 11.23 so with a bit of tuning, high tens might be possible. I think you'd need about two or three more mph to reach your goal.

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John_Heard
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#28 Post by John_Heard » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:04 pm

With that mph there's definitely more in it ET wise and probably more MPH with some more tuning. 10.99? Maybe, it's not a bad goal :cool:

I'd suggest next engine wise working with the timing - how much do you have in it now for total timing? Also the carb might respond to some jetting changes. One change per pass at the most, don't go changing too much or you won't know what's helping and hurting.

Do you have a buddy that has an 850 carb to test with? - and a box of jets?

nobrakes
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#29 Post by nobrakes » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:54 pm

The sky is looking cloudy but if it holds off I'll post some new results with the front sway bar removed. I was looking at some time slips and from 12.5 to 11.70 my 60ft only improved .028 seconds. I'm taking you guys advice and making 1 mod at a time.

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