4 Link System - Step by Step

[BillyShope]

Sorry. Didn't realize he misunderstood me.
http://www.racetec.cc/shope

Mike, I appreciate your interest in keeping things uncomplicated, but, on second thought, I can't go along with the way you want to handle a misunderstanding.

Neither of us want to see Jeff wasting his time switching to conventional engine mounts, but, at the same time, I believe our posts should express the truth. Remember, also, that others are reading these threads and they, too, deserve the truth.

The simple truth is that a change in engine mounts will not affect the weight transfer. There is no "energy direction" with which he need be concerned. Weight transfer is determined by the inertial force acting through the car's center of gravity, the center of gravity height, and the wheelbase. I'm certain Jeff will have no trouble in understanding that.
http://www.racetec.cc/shope

[Jeff 4100]

The simple truth is that a change in engine mounts will not affect the weight transfer. There is no "energy direction" with which he need be concerned. Weight transfer is determined by the inertial force acting through the car's center of gravity, the center of gravity height, and the wheelbase. I'm certain Jeff will have no trouble in understanding that.
http://www.racetec.cc/shope

Guys,
I don't wanna see a fight here!!!
I'm sure I did a wrong question...I wanted ask a thing and I wrote another...my translation isn't good yet...sorry for all the inconvenience...

Let's try again!
When I said about the engine mounts, I was thinking about the rotation movement that the engine does and the way the it contributes for the left front suspension travel...
Because that, is the left front travel higher than right front??

My engine is fixed in a way that it don't move anything.
My question is: If I use the original engine mounts that allows a little bit of rotation movement is better than a engine mount that fix totally the engine??? What's its impact on the left front suspension travel??
Now, Did I make me clear guys???
Thanks,

[Jeff 4100]

I'm puzzled as this is not the normal set-up for shock installation. You have 90/10 shocks on the rear of the vehicle?

Did you remember about my Competition Engineering Adjustable shocks that broken?? After I found a pair of original reworked rear shocks. But its setup is that!!!!

Also, if you do have 60/40 valving on the right front of the car, you are giving up some weight transfer capability as that valving would be too stiff for allowing the front of the car to rise during launch.

Did you see as I have a lot of things to improve yet??

The 90/10 valving shocks need to be on the front and shocks like 60/40 or 50/50 should be on the rear of the car.

OK!OK!!
Thanks!

[Jeff 4100]

Keep the engine solidly mounted as you currently have it. You do not want the engine to move freely. The force transfer Billy is describing is transmitted through solid engine mounting. If the engine was able to move on rubber mounts, it would not direct it's energy through the chassis as well.

Perfect explanation Mike!!!
Thanks!

[Jeff 4100]

what do you suggest for me there in Kansas??

Regards!!!

That may be the hardest question you've asked Jeff. Not much here in Kansas to visit. Not that we wouldn't want to see you but, if I were you, I would plan my vacation around a big race like Orlando or the SCSN race in Las Vegas where there is also some other great attractions to see. Orlando has all kinds of things to see in addition to a big race and so does Las Vegas. I think it's great you want to visit us but, Kansas is not known for a great vacation spot for people coming to the U.S. Just something to think about.......

Thanks Mike!!!
I sent you a private email...let's talk by there!!
Thanks!!

[BillyShope]

I was thinking about the rotation movement that the engine does and the way the it contributes for the left front suspension travel...
Because that, is the left front travel higher than right front??

Okay, Jeff, I see where the misunderstanding occurred.

And, don't worry about a "fight." Mike and I both have your best interests at heart and are trying to help you.

The reason the left front lifts is because of that portion of the driveshaft reaction torque which is transmitted to the front. The total reaction torque is taken at the engine/transmission mounts...and this is where the misunderstanding occurred. From these mounts, it is transferred into the chassis and then distributed to the front and rear suspensions. This does NOT require any motion of the engine relative to the chassis. So, again, it does not matter whether the engine has the original mounts or is solidly mounted to the chassis.
http://www.racetec.cc/shope

[Jeff 4100]

And, don't worry about a "fight." Mike and I both have your best interests at heart and are trying to help you.

I was joking Bill.
I don't know how to thank you and Mike for all the help that you are giving me!!!
My results are showing it...
Thanks!!!

[John_Heard]

Mike, the State of Kansas Department of Tourism wants to have a word with you... LOL

[Mike Peters]

Mike, the State of Kansas Department of Tourism wants to have a word with you... LOL

Uh-oh!!!

[Mike Peters]

Did you remember about my Competition Engineering Adjustable shocks that broken?? After I found a pair of original reworked rear shocks. But its setup is that!!!!

Sorry Jeff. I forgot. I would say you have plenty of improvement to be made when you get new shocks. Did Eric Saffell from Afco ever contact you?

[Jeff 4100]

Of course, as I went on to say, the better solution would be to remove the front sway bar AND install a true ARB.

Bill,
What's the ARB model I can follow??
What's the better system??
Or, Do you think that them work equal???

Thanks!

[BillyShope]

Of course, as I went on to say, the better solution would be to remove the front sway bar AND install a true ARB.

Bill,
What's the ARB model I can follow??
What's the better system??
Or, Do you think that them work equal???

Thanks!

Note that I said the BETTER solution. Why not go to the BEST solution? The best solution would be to adjust your 4link so that you have more antisquat on the right side than on the left. This would be better than the addition of the ARB and you don't have to buy anything.

See Page 19:
http://www.racetec.cc/shope

[bracketracer]

Of course, as I went on to say, the better solution would be to remove the front sway bar AND install a true ARB.

Bill,
What's the ARB model I can follow??
What's the better system??
Or, Do you think that them work equal???

Thanks!

Note that I said the BETTER solution. Why not go to the BEST solution? The best solution would be to adjust your 4link so that you have more antisquat on the right side than on the left. This would be better than the addition of the ARB and you don't have to buy anything.

See Page 19:
http://www.racetec.cc/shope

And how would you go about doing that???More anti squat on one side??? Upper bars in 2 different locations??? Think your looking for trouble..

[BillyShope]

Think your looking for trouble..

Not at all. The driveshaft torque creates a terrible imbalance as you launch. The left rear loading is much greater than the right rear. All you're doing...when you use more antisquat on the right side than on the left...is provide a torque opposite to the driveshaft torque and thereby maintain equal rear tire loading. Since the link loads are proportional to the driveshaft torque, it is possible to maintain equal rear tire loading for any value of driveshaft torque.
http://www.racetec.cc/shope

[bracketracer]

Think your looking for trouble..

Not at all. The driveshaft torque creates a terrible imbalance as you launch. The left rear loading is much greater than the right rear. All you're doing...when you use more antisquat on the right side than on the left...is provide a torque opposite to the driveshaft torque and thereby maintain equal rear tire loading. Since the link loads are proportional to the driveshaft torque, it is possible to maintain equal rear tire loading for any value of driveshaft torque.
http://www.racetec.cc/shope

Just can't agree with what your saying and you didn't say how you were going to get more antisquat on one side...If you don't keep the 4 link bars at the same pivot point some thing is going to bind....

Billy also wanted me to point my lower 4 link bars up ....Never tryed it as it just won't work......

Don't mean to steal your thread here Jeff........Sorry

Any though on this Mike???