Anybody ever bought a Shafiroff Short Block?

General Engine Discussion

Moderator: John_Heard

Message
Author
User avatar
stroker1
Posts: 333
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Dunn, NC

#16 Post by stroker1 » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:42 pm

I have heard of this with a Dart Little "M" or Iron Eagle I think. The reason it didn't show up at first is probably because the paint on the block had it sealed up. And it took awhile for the hot oil to cut through the paint.

That's just my quess.

Chris
'87 S10 stock suspension, Caltracs, 9" rearend, 1.82 Glide, 383 SBC,
Brodix Track1 Heads, 14:1 compression, 180 shot plate,
2" tube Hussler Headers, 1.38 60ft., 6.20 ET 1/8th, 109 MPH,
Still Tuning, more to come.

Canadian Guy
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:47 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

#17 Post by Canadian Guy » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:00 pm

stroker1 wrote:I have heard of this with a Dart Little "M" or Iron Eagle I think. The reason it didn't show up at first is probably because the paint on the block had it sealed up. And it took awhile for the hot oil to cut through the paint.

That's just my quess.

Chris
That's sounds about right to me. Considering the size of the hole (not visable to the naked eye). Even after we put compressed air through it we still could not see it but you could feel the air flowing through it! Amazing how such a small thing could create such a big problem! My brand new Ceramic coat headers took a beating from all the rework and now look well used! :x I just hope that both Shafiroff and World products will make good on this unfortunate series of events and compensate me for all the troubles this has caused me. I gave them both the details of the problem so they can fix it on there end. That alone has to worth something to them you would think! :wink: I will let you know how this story ends as soon as I find out! :-)

I am remaining optimistic they will do the right thing for us racers! :-)

Brad
71 Camaro
My first car - owned 31 years now
582 Shafiroff BBC 768HP + 726TQ
Best so far 10.49@130

User avatar
jmarkaudio
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:22 pm
Location: Florida
Contact:

#18 Post by jmarkaudio » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:10 pm

There have been posts on several sites about the lack of quality from World. I have one in my dragster with no issues, My new SB2 is an Iron Eagle. We checked everything on the Iron Eagle and the machine work was dead on. Much better piece to start with.
Mark Whitener
Image
____________

Good work isn't cheap and cheap work can't be good.

User avatar
1320quick
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:51 pm
Location: Denver Co

#19 Post by 1320quick » Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:59 pm

I got to be honest here, I don't really see how Shafiroff is to blame here. If it did not leak on the dyno, how could they have ever known there was a problem? World products made and machined the block. It seems like the problem is with them. If Shafiroff is able to work something out with World products, that's super cool of them and I would say is going above and beyond what they are responsible for. No matter what, your the one who had to suffer and it would be nice to see someone step up for you....
Ron
71 Nova - 3300lbs, stock suspended on a 275
5.35 132MPH in the thin Colorado air

demented
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:48 am
Location: Lake Luzerne NY

#20 Post by demented » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:28 am

I have never bought a motor from schaffirof but , I have had them do machine work for me in the past with poor results. I had a 4.750 crank that I sent to them to be balanced(needed to add mallory to it). When I got the crank back I had questioned how they put in the mallory. It would fly out when spinning. They had welded the mallory into the crank but I could hear something dinging in the crank. After running the crank in the motor and having a vibration that I chased for a couple of months I had pulled the motor apart because a main bearing spun in the block. Come to find out that they had drilled a hole in the crank put in mallory that did not fit the hole(rattled around in the hole) then capped and welded the hole up. This rattling peice of mallory had created harmonics that I could not cure and had ultimately caused the damage to the bearings. They would not stand behind there work. The crank was brought to my local guy to be rechecked for balance and was nowhere near were it was supposed to be.

I will never give them a good referal and I do know others that have had similar issues with them.
Quit talkin...Lets Race!!!

Fred Kowalik
Seriously Demented Racing

Canadian Guy
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:47 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

#21 Post by Canadian Guy » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:25 pm

1320quick wrote:I got to be honest here, I don't really see how Shafiroff is to blame here. If it did not leak on the dyno, how could they have ever known there was a problem? World products made and machined the block. It seems like the problem is with them. If Shafiroff is able to work something out with World products, that's super cool of them and I would say is going above and beyond what they are responsible for. No matter what, your the one who had to suffer and it would be nice to see someone step up for you....
I never said anyone was to blame. I am saying the someone should be responsible for what happened like I had to be.

No it didn't leak on the dyno but because of the nature of the flaw I'm not surprised by that. I took a few thermal cycles for the hole in the block that was covered over by paint to open up and become a problem.

Definetly the block was the "root" cause of the fault and World Products has to take responsible for that fact. Weather they will reimburse me for all my costs, time, and trouble caused because ot there mistake it the question at hand here. I can only believe that this solution I have found will be cheaper for them than to have to rebuild the engine using a new block. It is also better for me than being without the engine and my money for 6-8 weeks. Sounds like a win/win situation to me. :wink:

I bought the engine from Shafiroff and because of that they are the ones that need to step in hear and rectify the situation so everyone can walk away feeling the right thing has been done so as not to tarnis there good reputaion in the racing industry. They can then approach World Products for compensation from them.

I am hoping they will step up to the plate and pay the small amount I am asking for. They have already accepted responsiblity by agreeing the pay to have the oil pan gasket replaced here in Canada (chegue is in the mail I hope). So the guy that didn't fix the problem got paid (by me so far) and the guys (me + my freind) that fixed the problem shoudn't? :?

I should now in the next day or so how this is going to unfold for the three groups involved. :-)

Brad
71 Camaro
My first car - owned 31 years now
582 Shafiroff BBC 768HP + 726TQ
Best so far 10.49@130

Canadian Guy
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:47 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

#22 Post by Canadian Guy » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:35 pm

demented wrote:I have never bought a motor from schaffirof but , I have had them do machine work for me in the past with poor results. I had a 4.750 crank that I sent to them to be balanced(needed to add mallory to it). When I got the crank back I had questioned how they put in the mallory. It would fly out when spinning. They had welded the mallory into the crank but I could hear something dinging in the crank. After running the crank in the motor and having a vibration that I chased for a couple of months I had pulled the motor apart because a main bearing spun in the block. Come to find out that they had drilled a hole in the crank put in mallory that did not fit the hole(rattled around in the hole) then capped and welded the hole up. This rattling peice of mallory had created harmonics that I could not cure and had ultimately caused the damage to the bearings. They would not stand behind there work. The crank was brought to my local guy to be rechecked for balance and was nowhere near were it was supposed to be.

I will never give them a good referal and I do know others that have had similar issues with them.

Sorry to hear about you and your buddies trouble's with Shafiroff. I am hoping he will stand behind not just his machining work but his entire line of create engines for every racer that buys one of his awesome power plants. Just because I am located in Canada should not take away from his responsiblity in this matter. :-)

Brad
71 Camaro
My first car - owned 31 years now
582 Shafiroff BBC 768HP + 726TQ
Best so far 10.49@130

MMAX
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

#23 Post by MMAX » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:52 pm

Canadian Guy, reading your story scares the hell out of me. I purchased my 582 Shafiroff Ultra-Street engine in October and haven't fired it up yet. It was dynoed at his shop and made 791hp and 736 ft/lbs of torque an I was looking forward to beating the hell out of it this coming season. I'm wondering if this is going to be a common problem with all the Merlin blocks they sent out or just a freak occurance. I did notice on their website that they started using the Dart Big M blocks instead of the Merlins. My engine probably won't be ready to fire for a while yet so I'm interested to know how you made out. In the mean time I'm a little worried.

Canadian Guy
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:47 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

#24 Post by Canadian Guy » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:47 am

MMAX wrote:Canadian Guy, reading your story scares the hell out of me. I purchased my 582 Shafiroff Ultra-Street engine in October and haven't fired it up yet. It was dynoed at his shop and made 791hp and 736 ft/lbs of torque an I was looking forward to beating the hell out of it this coming season. I'm wondering if this is going to be a common problem with all the Merlin blocks they sent out or just a freak occurance. I did notice on their website that they started using the Dart Big M blocks instead of the Merlins. My engine probably won't be ready to fire for a while yet so I'm interested to know how you made out. In the mean time I'm a little worried.
My story should scare the hell out of you! I was mortified when the oil started leaking out! :shock: What version did you buy to make those huge numbers? World products assured me this was not a common fault with there blocks. I saw that also and wish I had got a Dart block now. Makes me wonder why they moved away from Merlins. :? Try and get it running as soon as you can to see if you have a problem or not, it took about 1/2 hour of running to show the problem. I am still waiting (for a few weeks now) for the final resolution to my problem. Looks like the best I will get is a store credit to get some parts with (no cash payout) but I have to call them yet again to find out. They have not been easy to deal with and have not returned my calls when they said they would call me. It's only my persistance that has gotten me this far. It's a easy fix once you know what to do and my engine runs great now. Going to call again today to find out what compensation I will get. Did you ask about there warranty before you bought the engine? If so what did they tell you?

Brad
71 Camaro
My first car - owned 31 years now
582 Shafiroff BBC 768HP + 726TQ
Best so far 10.49@130

MMAX
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

#25 Post by MMAX » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:48 pm

I didn't go for the all out SS version, I just upgraded to the 345 cc heads with the CNC ported combustion chambers and a slightly more aggressive solid roller cam. I didn't ask about the warranty because it says on their website all Ultra-Street engines have a 2 year unlimited warranty. I guess I should have asked. I found that the sales guy I dealt with was very eager to sell you an engine but after all the money got there customer service was not the top priority.

Canadian Guy
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:47 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

#26 Post by Canadian Guy » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:28 pm

MMAX wrote:I didn't go for the all out SS version, I just upgraded to the 345 cc heads with the CNC ported combustion chambers and a slightly more aggressive solid roller cam. I didn't ask about the warranty because it says on their website all Ultra-Street engines have a 2 year unlimited warranty. I guess I should have asked. I found that the sales guy I dealt with was very eager to sell you an engine but after all the money got there customer service was not the top priority.
Mine has the same heads with a hydraulic roller cam for 768hp and 726tq. I did ask about warranty and was told it only applies to US customers. I talked to Bill Mitchell's (theengineshop.com) before I bought the Shafiroff and they said there warranty was good in Canada but I liked the Shafiroff better. The only reason I got the Shafiroff was because there salesman (Mike G.) assured me that if there was a problem right out of the box that it would be taken care of. They have paid someone else who never fixed the problem but I have had to negotiate with them to get any compensation for me and my friend (the ones who fixed the problem).
The last time I talked to them they said I would get a store credit but would not say how much. I sent them a list of products that I would take as compensation before Christmas but have yet to hear back from them. I will call yet again tomorrow so this can be resolved.

You might want to make it a priority to get it running to make sure all is well with your engine. I'm sure it will be as I was the lucky one to have a problem! :?

Brad
71 Camaro
My first car - owned 31 years now
582 Shafiroff BBC 768HP + 726TQ
Best so far 10.49@130

Wayne Carroll
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:09 am

#27 Post by Wayne Carroll » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:56 pm

Hi Brad:

Eeeeech...you poor guy! That is really an ugly story. Don't worry, Scott will make it right. I'm sure the delay in getting back to you is him contacting all the interested parties at World Products and making some adjustment between both of these guys to help you. Hopefully, he has seen the photographs that you posted. If not, send them to him.

Remember, he is a business man and a hot rodder a top professional in his field with a certain amount of pride in what he delivers. Scott understands your grief and hard work to get this resolved. I've heard nothing but good thinks about Scott - be patient. Up until now you are handling this perfectly from a customer relations standpoint.

User avatar
hsutton
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 1:39 pm

#28 Post by hsutton » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:10 am

Canadian Guy wrote:
1320quick wrote:I have an entire 540ci BBC from Shafiroff. Had it since 2002 and I've had exactly ZERO problems with it. Been freshen by them once and had a couple of sets of valve springs. I would not have any issues purchasing another engine from them. Solid parts, good workmanship and good service....
I'm glad to hear they stand behind there products. I hope they do it in my case! :?

I just bought a Shafiroff 582 ultra street engine for my 71 Camaro and after about 1/2 hour of running it developed a bad oil leak from somewhere at the back of the block. At first it looked like the pan gasket as the rear corner on the drivers side was soaked with oil. After talking to Shafiroff it was decided that I take the engine out and take it to a local shop to have the pan gasket replaced and they will pay for it. After putting the engine back in the leak was still there! :roll: Now they wanted me to ship it back to them. I was not keen on that idea as the shipping would be on me (from Canada about $400 one way) and I would be without an engine (and $15k) for at least 6-8 weeks over the holidays just when I wanted to finish other work on the car that I needed to engine in the car for. They think that I caused to problem somehow as it did not leak for them.
Well my friend and I put all our efforts into finding the leak ourselfs before pulling it out yet again! And we found it!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: It was coming out the back of the block by the oil filter casting! :cry: After much searching and a few cases of beer we found the "ROOT" cause of the problem. The rear bolt that holds the oil filter bypass valve plate to the block had been drilled to deep and caused a VERY VERY small pinhole in the back side of the block(not visible to the naked eye)! Definelty WORLD PRODUCTS fault! :wink: This is a Merlin 3 iron block and I did not cause this to happen. It would only leak when hot as the engine oil was thin enough to seep up the threads of the bolt then out the pinhole onto the ground. The good news is the with a bit of thread sealer on the bolt and some JB Weld on the back of the block the problem is now fixed!!!! 8-) :D

I am now asking for compensation for all my troubles with my brand new engine. I spent SO much time and money on sorting out this problem and am asking for a reasonable amount to cover my costs and time to fix there problem. At first they said NO but after telling them the "ROOT" cause of the problem they said they will get back to me about it. :? I can only hope that they are fair to me about this issue and use this valuable information that I have found and feed it back the the CNC machine/operater that is drilling those holes and correct the problem on there side so no one else has to go though what I did! I have been in contact with World Products about this as well. I am asking for $1k as compensation for this. I would think that if they split the cost at $500 each that would be way cheaper for them than to replace the block and rebuild it with the parts from the other one while I wait with a big hole in my car and my wallet!

I will find out next week how this story will end and can only hope they will do the right thing for the customer. :-)
A friend of mine that runs a dragster is in the market for a short block and this outcome (if it goes bad for me) will make him buy a DART over a WORLD block that's for sure.



If Shafiroff and World does as good at job at customer service as they did in building of the engine this will be a happy ending for everyone involved. :-) I will keep you posted as to what happens. :wink:

Oh btw the engine runs great and sounds Awesome! 8-) Can't wait to race it in the spring :D

Thanks to Scott Shafiroff and Bill Mitchell for there attention in this matter. :-)

Brad
Shafiroff may help but i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Bill Mitchell to kick in. He is notorious for not standing behind his products. Dart blocks are way better, but Scott may get some respect as he buys lots of stuff from World. Good luck on getting some satisfaction. I have a set of heads i purchased from Shafiroff but have never had any issues with them.

Canadian Guy
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:47 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

#29 Post by Canadian Guy » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:12 pm

Wayne Carroll wrote:Hi Brad:

Eeeeech...you poor guy! That is really an ugly story. Don't worry, Scott will make it right. I'm sure the delay in getting back to you is him contacting all the interested parties at World Products and making some adjustment between both of these guys to help you. Hopefully, he has seen the photographs that you posted. If not, send them to him.

Remember, he is a business man and a hot rodder a top professional in his field with a certain amount of pride in what he delivers. Scott understands your grief and hard work to get this resolved. I've heard nothing but good thinks about Scott - be patient. Up until now you are handling this perfectly from a customer relations standpoint.
Hello Wayne,

Your right it is an ugly story and one that has yet to come to a ultimate conclusion. There offer of a store credit has been reduced to good will and my requests to talk to Scott Shafiroff have gone unanswered. I have given them all the details and they don't even believe that the problem ever existed. :?
I hope you are right about Scott and he will step in here so we can both feel good about what happened. I heard good things to about there products and that is why I went Shafiroff in the first place. It's winter now and with that much power I have no choise but to be patient and wait for spring. :-)
I am waiting for there final answer on this and will be getting the word out about Shafiroff's customer service policies either way it turns out. :wink:

Brad
71 Camaro
My first car - owned 31 years now
582 Shafiroff BBC 768HP + 726TQ
Best so far 10.49@130

Canadian Guy
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:47 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

#30 Post by Canadian Guy » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:35 pm

Shafiroff may help but i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Bill Mitchell to kick in. He is notorious for not standing behind his products. Dart blocks are way better, but Scott may get some respect as he buys lots of stuff from World. Good luck on getting some satisfaction. I have a set of heads i purchased from Shafiroff but have never had any issues with them.
I'm not going to do that as I would be dead by now! :lol: Look what other companies do for there customers! :shock:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthr ... nsmissions

Here is the responce I got from Vinny Budano from Shafiroff's. :? They don't even believe that the problem even exisited! :? They should talk to my wife about it, she would tell him a thing or two about it! :shock:


Brad,

As per our conversation, I extended a good will gesture to help you out in the future, not to be held hostage by ridiculous demands. We offered you a complete replacement of the engine block from our company and from the block manufacturer (which you denied). Common industry practice if and when there is a problem is for the original manufacturer to get the product back for in house diagnosis. Our solution was to verify that there was indeed a problem with the block, but you went ahead with your own diagnosis before even contacting us.

We had already paid you $197 towards the mis-diagnosis of the problem; by somebody that you considered to be "an expert".

Now, my offer of future good will still stands, because we are a company with integrity.

Thank you,

Vinny Budano
Here is my responce to his email

Vinny + Scott,

I was hoping that Scott Shafiroff would be interested in quality customer service like RPM Transmissions in Indiana did for his customer regardless of it’s a business because in the end it’s about the end user. I didn’t matter if the first diagnosis was correct or who made it or if the parts got returned first, it was about fixing the problem for the customer.

I first asked you to send me a new motor so you could have the defective one back (which you denied). As I recall what we agreed upon after the new oil pan gasket fix failed was for me to go buy some oil leak test additive and a black light to diagnose the problem before removing the engine yet again. That is how we found the source of the leak based on our mutual agreement of how to proceed. You then said that I would be entitled to a store credit of an undisclosed amount (you would not say a number) and I should send you a list of item you would give me as compensation, which I did. You then failed to respond to me and after several calls and after a second request by you for a list of items your offer has now been reduced to good will? I am not demanding anything and judging by RPM Transmissions in Indiana example not ridiculous at all. I know that you never believed me from the start that the problem even existed but if you asked my wife she will tell you what happened and a few other things to I am sure like she did for me! Lol

If Scott Shafiroff is interested in good will then could he please contact me so we can come to a mutual agreement on what is proper compensation for all my troubles?
I have asked to speak to him about this but so far he has been unavailable. Could Scott please call me?
I have sent them a link to this thread so they can see how others feel about the level of customer service that they provide. Thanks for the support on my quest to get proper compensation from Shafiroff. :-)

Brad
71 Camaro
My first car - owned 31 years now
582 Shafiroff BBC 768HP + 726TQ
Best so far 10.49@130

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests