DragStuff

My engine is an externally balanced 1/4" stroked 454. The balancer and the crank pulley now has a good bit of run out. Is it possible that being externally balanced has caused this. The stroker kit is an eagle with a cast crank and professional products balancer, I've been shifting it at 6800. I've run 454s like this and never had a problem. The balancer is tight as is the crank pulley. Is it possible for the crank snout to bend from the forces of the counterweighted balancer? Anyone here ever seen this?

I realize this is probably a dumb question but damn it's got me worried. Thanks for any light that can be shed on this.

Roger

does the balancer have rubber pressed between two halfs of the balancer.
if so this is probabily the problem .

It sounds like the snout bent if the pully has run out.

supernova wrote:It sounds like the snout bent if the pully has run out.

That's my thinking too, I just don't get how it could have happened. Other than a serpentine drive set up on it there's not really any load on the end of the crank except the counterwieght on the balancer. I'm bummed, I thought I would be able to at least run it this summer and put a 632 in it this winter with funds I've been saving. I guess I'll have to use some of those funds to buy a crank if it proves to be the problem. Thanks


Roger

put a new balancer on and see what you got?

Whats your main bearings look like?

If you are shaking the crank hard enough to bent a snout, you will probably have skuffed some mains too.

Moparious Maximus wrote:Whats your main bearings look like?

If you are shaking the crank hard enough to bent a snout, you will probably have skuffed some mains too.

Well first I'd like to say thanks for the advice and comments. It helps to be able to throw stuff out there and have it kicked around buy others. So I removed the balancer today and put a dial gauge on it and got .036" of run out on the end of the crank. We were turning the crank by hand at the flywheel and it got much worse. I got my helper to move the crank backwards a little and the snout shifted the full .036" all at once. Turning it back and forth at the flywheel about an inch the end of the crank could be visibly seen to *flop* up and down. My conclusion is the the crank is broke so my life kind of sucks tonight. Tomorrow is another day though.

Eagle stepped up and offered a new crank or and up grade to a 4340 for the difference between the cast and the steel.

Thinkin' about a 565 shortblock from Ohio Crank if anyone thinks this is a bad idea or knows of a better deal for the money please let me know.


Thanks, Roger

Why not take up Eagle on their offer BUT do an internally balanced deal and get a new damper (good one not P/P) and fly or flex.

Well the 505 block is toast. It tossed the front main, sort of looks like someone was trying to make a wok out of it. The bearing is smooth, shiny and about two inches wide. I've never seen anything like it. The rest of the engine looks like new (well it is anyway). I am assuming from what I see that the counterweight in the balancer caused the problem. The balancer has a rub mark on it where it rubbed on the timing pointer exactly where the weight is and the crank has a sort of hot looking spot about an inch long on the main journal in the same spot.

I had been told I shouldn't run an externally balanced engine but no one really new why. This engine revved quick and hard and seemed to have a lot of power. Lesson learned, I ordered a 582 short deck short block from Ohio Crank with custom pistons to get the streetable 10 to 1 compression I need. Never had a big engine before, I can't wait.

Roger

soon to be 582r10

505r10 wrote:Well the 505 block is toast. It tossed the front main, sort of looks like someone was trying to make a wok out of it. The bearing is smooth, shiny and about two inches wide. I've never seen anything like it. The rest of the engine looks like new (well it is anyway). I am assuming from what I see that the counterweight in the balancer caused the problem. The balancer has a rub mark on it where it rubbed on the timing pointer exactly where the weight is and the crank has a sort of hot looking spot about an inch long on the main journal in the same spot.

I had been told I shouldn't run an externally balanced engine but no one really new why. This engine revved quick and hard and seemed to have a lot of power. Lesson learned, I ordered a 582 short deck short block from Ohio Crank with custom pistons to get the streetable 10 to 1 compression I need. Never had a big engine before, I can't wait.

Roger

soon to be 582r10

I know what its like to break a new engine. My brand new 496 had about 2 hours of run time before I found a way to tear it up. As far as the Ohio Crank 582, I'm really really jealous. I'm gonan get my 496 to the track and make it work, and teh plan is as soon as the car is done, to start saving for my big boy motor. Again, really jealous, keep us posted and good luck!!!!!

505r10 wrote:Well the 505 block is toast. It tossed the front main, sort of looks like someone was trying to make a wok out of it. The bearing is smooth, shiny and about two inches wide. I've never seen anything like it. The rest of the engine looks like new (well it is anyway). I am assuming from what I see that the counterweight in the balancer caused the problem. The balancer has a rub mark on it where it rubbed on the timing pointer exactly where the weight is and the crank has a sort of hot looking spot about an inch long on the main journal in the same spot.

I had been told I shouldn't run an externally balanced engine but no one really new why. This engine revved quick and hard and seemed to have a lot of power. Lesson learned, I ordered a 582 short deck short block from Ohio Crank with custom pistons to get the streetable 10 to 1 compression I need. Never had a big engine before, I can't wait.

Roger

soon to be 582r10

Sorry the motor was trashed. It could have been many things.
As for the internally balanced thing. Consider where the weight is, an internally balance motor keep the weight inside the motor where it need to be. The crankshaft will experience less torsional loading when internally balanced.

Sorry the motor was trashed. It could have been many things.
As for the internally balanced thing. Consider where the weight is, an internally balance motor keep the weight inside the motor where it need to be. The crankshaft will experience less torsional loading when internally balanced.[/quote]


Thanks, no more external balance for me. There's no doubt in my mind what caused the problem, I've got a perfect looking engine with the only thing wrong with it being the front main is knocked out of it. I'm going to fix it, the only damage is the block and crank. I've got plenty of blocks and a (internally balanced) crank is a phone call away. I'll do it later though. All the 454s I've had I never had a problem like this but none of them ever ran like this one so it's live and learn I guess. Expensive and time consuming lesson though. When I get a chance I'll put a picture of the damage up here.


Roger

You always hate to see a motor hurt itself, but look at the bright side, you caught it before it completely grenaded and took everything with it.


Its not the cheapest way to learn something, but its damn effective.

Here's a couple of pictures of the damage done. The rest of the crank and bearings look perfect. Even the front rod which is fed by the oil hole in that burned looking front main journal. The bearing was peened out to about twice it's normal width. It was against the counter weight and the timing gear. It's smooth and shiny and looks a lot like I probably drove it quiet a while like that. This engine never made an odd sound. It held 90 lbs of oil pressure cold and 35 to 45 hot idle. It would go to 65 hot at 6500 rpms, it never gave me an indication it was broke until it tossed the serpentine belt and broke the alternator in the process.

I included the images of the balancers to see if you guys think I'm right about the balance weight in the professional products balancer could have caused this. The ATI balancer from my 454 has a really long weight on it, the p.p. balancer has a short weight concentrating the weight in one area. The weight lines up exactly where the dark spot is on the crank. The dark spot on the crank is approx 1-1/2" long the rest of the crank journal looks smooth, shiny with no grooves or scratches in it.

roger

505r10
soon to be
582r10