Keep wiping out bearings.
Moderator: John_Heard
Keep wiping out bearings.
Can't figure out whats going wrong here. Motor has less than 10 minutes run time on it, and it wiped out the main and rod bearings. There is oil flow going to the bottom end and car has 70psi oil pressure at idle.
Motor specs: Dart Little M block, 400 mains
-434cu. in.
-Callies crank
-13.72 compression
-bearing clearances are .003"
This is the third time its done it, just never this soon. Normally it shows up at the track when we spin a bearing, but we caught it this time before it did any damage to the crank and rods. We're running Petro-Can Duron-E 15W40 oil. We're thinking the oil may be the problem, because we've changed everything else. Will post up pics of the bearings tomorrow. Any suggestions?
Oh, and whats everyone using for break-in oil.
Motor specs: Dart Little M block, 400 mains
-434cu. in.
-Callies crank
-13.72 compression
-bearing clearances are .003"
This is the third time its done it, just never this soon. Normally it shows up at the track when we spin a bearing, but we caught it this time before it did any damage to the crank and rods. We're running Petro-Can Duron-E 15W40 oil. We're thinking the oil may be the problem, because we've changed everything else. Will post up pics of the bearings tomorrow. Any suggestions?
Oh, and whats everyone using for break-in oil.
Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
dello 400 diesel oil high in zinc works great.
Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
VR-1 20-50
Is it the same bearings every time?
In order to get bearing damage the crank has to come in contact with the bearing. Your oil could be the it....
Is it the same bearings every time?
In order to get bearing damage the crank has to come in contact with the bearing. Your oil could be the it....
Blackhoodmafia!!!!
1972 Nova SS
572 C.I. BBC
Best to date: 1/8
et: 5.28
mph: 134
new wt. 3340 lbs
1972 Nova SS
572 C.I. BBC
Best to date: 1/8
et: 5.28
mph: 134
new wt. 3340 lbs
- John_Heard
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Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
Even shitty oil should do better than that - Seems to me there are problems other than just the oil, looks like a good time to step back and evaluate everything you're doing in regards to the bottom end. Bearing brand, clearances, crankshaft finish, straightness/roundness of the journals, rod dimensions - everything needs reviewed closely.
My 1971 X275 Nova | Facebook
Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
Pictures:
It used to always only be number 2 & 3 main, now its all 5 mains and 8 rods.
Bearings are Cleivte 77's. The block was re-line honed and checked for true before this time, and the rods were checked for being round as well. Crankshaft is a new Callies, so whatever finish they grind them to is what is there. Oil pump is a Melling HV55.
It used to always only be number 2 & 3 main, now its all 5 mains and 8 rods.
Bearings are Cleivte 77's. The block was re-line honed and checked for true before this time, and the rods were checked for being round as well. Crankshaft is a new Callies, so whatever finish they grind them to is what is there. Oil pump is a Melling HV55.
- John_Heard
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Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
That looks like crap! Dang... Did this engine turn over freely when you were putting it together?
Either there's a clearance problem, or that sucker ain't getting any oil downstairs for some reason or other.
Either there's a clearance problem, or that sucker ain't getting any oil downstairs for some reason or other.
My 1971 X275 Nova | Facebook
- Moparious Maximus
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:05 pm
- Location: Iowa
Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
Im with John on this one, DANG. Ive had my share of bearing problems and you've got a problem somewhere.
It looks to me like a few mains got hurt first and the rod bearings just caught the crap from the mains dying.
That oil probably isnt the cause but its not helping anything either, good oil will go a long ways in helping out bearings. Run a 20-50 or straight 50.
Your 70psi of oil pressure at idle is fine, but what is it doing under power at RPM, maybe about the 1000' mark, Whats your oil capacity? Could you be pumping your pan dry?
Ive seen my oil pressure nose dive after the chute comes out, from 160psi down to about 35, and not come back up right away, I know you really dont need much pressure in the shutdown, but it cant be good either. We started running more oil and the problem went away.
About the bearings themselves, what are they?
Ive had bad luck using the harder tri-layer bearings in the mains.
Any signs of detonation or a vibration, that one main looks like it was beat pretty hard.
It looks to me like a few mains got hurt first and the rod bearings just caught the crap from the mains dying.
That oil probably isnt the cause but its not helping anything either, good oil will go a long ways in helping out bearings. Run a 20-50 or straight 50.
Your 70psi of oil pressure at idle is fine, but what is it doing under power at RPM, maybe about the 1000' mark, Whats your oil capacity? Could you be pumping your pan dry?
Ive seen my oil pressure nose dive after the chute comes out, from 160psi down to about 35, and not come back up right away, I know you really dont need much pressure in the shutdown, but it cant be good either. We started running more oil and the problem went away.
About the bearings themselves, what are they?
Ive had bad luck using the harder tri-layer bearings in the mains.
Any signs of detonation or a vibration, that one main looks like it was beat pretty hard.
'63 Plymouth, Straight axle, Leaf springs, Drum brakes, 31x10.5wx15 Rears 3215lbs
Best time to date 7.99 @ 170 mph
572" Wedge 8-71 @ 28% OD, ALKY, Glide, Dana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq-xzFWHtFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfyZSw59R_o
Best time to date 7.99 @ 170 mph
572" Wedge 8-71 @ 28% OD, ALKY, Glide, Dana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq-xzFWHtFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfyZSw59R_o
- John_Heard
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Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
Note Maximus - it did that at start up (10 min)....
My 1971 X275 Nova | Facebook
Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
That's not an oil problem although I won't use anything less than 20-50 on my race motors.
There's a lot more going on there than oil, looks like an oiling problem. I'm not sure I like the oil pump your using. I run a pump that Reher-Morrison sells and am very happy with it.
There's a lot more going on there than oil, looks like an oiling problem. I'm not sure I like the oil pump your using. I run a pump that Reher-Morrison sells and am very happy with it.
Blackhoodmafia!!!!
1972 Nova SS
572 C.I. BBC
Best to date: 1/8
et: 5.28
mph: 134
new wt. 3340 lbs
1972 Nova SS
572 C.I. BBC
Best to date: 1/8
et: 5.28
mph: 134
new wt. 3340 lbs
- John_Heard
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5734
- Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:20 am
- Location: Resume Speed, Kansas
- Contact:
Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
I'm thinking bent crank, or bearings way too tight.
Next question, what oil filter? Is the block oil filter bypass blocked off? Oil Restrictors used?
Any issues with the cam bearings not allowing oil around them and down into the block to the crank?
Was this crank the same one you had problems with before, or 1st time you used it?
Next question, what oil filter? Is the block oil filter bypass blocked off? Oil Restrictors used?
Any issues with the cam bearings not allowing oil around them and down into the block to the crank?
Was this crank the same one you had problems with before, or 1st time you used it?
My 1971 X275 Nova | Facebook
- Moparious Maximus
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:05 pm
- Location: Iowa
Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
This motor did all this with no load on it at all, not one pass? Wierd!!
I dont usually bad mouth brands, but my only experiance with Callies cranks wasnt a good one, it ate bearings too, but personally I still doubt that its your crankshaft. My problem was I was overpowering it and it was flexing to much under high rpm load.
I dont usually bad mouth brands, but my only experiance with Callies cranks wasnt a good one, it ate bearings too, but personally I still doubt that its your crankshaft. My problem was I was overpowering it and it was flexing to much under high rpm load.
'63 Plymouth, Straight axle, Leaf springs, Drum brakes, 31x10.5wx15 Rears 3215lbs
Best time to date 7.99 @ 170 mph
572" Wedge 8-71 @ 28% OD, ALKY, Glide, Dana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq-xzFWHtFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfyZSw59R_o
Best time to date 7.99 @ 170 mph
572" Wedge 8-71 @ 28% OD, ALKY, Glide, Dana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq-xzFWHtFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfyZSw59R_o
- ytnova
- Posts: 735
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Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
Yeah, I have to agree, even dirty used oil would do a better job than that! I would be looking for a reason it is not getting any oil down low. Are the cam bearings in correct? Where is the tap for the oil pressure coming from? Wet sump or dry sump? Any chance this block was set up for a dry sump and there is a plug in the block that needs to be removed for a wet sump, or vice versa and ones needs to be added? If it wiped out the bearing that bad in 10 minutes, there is no or limited oil in the bottom end. I know I had a problem with a turbo v6 buick GN that I ran a 4AN direct feed line from the oil pump/front cover to the turbo and did not realize that it needed a restrictor, SOB locked up and wiped out the cam bearings while I was breaking it in, TWICE!
I am not really sure what the question is, but I am pretty sure the answer is Big Block.
Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
I'm with Jon, was the crankshaft checked for a srue straight?
73 Vette, moly back half
Pump gas 496
Two Pro Systems 950's
Chance 6000 converter
Pump gas 496
Two Pro Systems 950's
Chance 6000 converter
Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
Crank was new before this. It only has the 10 minutes run time on it. Oil filter bypass is not blocked off, and its a WIX filter. The block oils the mains first, so don't think the cam bearings are the issue. Also, the bearings for the cam are in correctly.
But, got thinking tonight about how we pulled the pipe plugs in the oil galley's out after getting the machine work done to the block. Its possible with the dart block to put the wrong pipe plug in the wrong hole, or to run them in too deep, and block off oil flow to the mains. This would still show the oil pressure we're getting, but not supply enough oil to the bottom end to keep it in one piece. Pulling it apart tomorrow to find out.
But, got thinking tonight about how we pulled the pipe plugs in the oil galley's out after getting the machine work done to the block. Its possible with the dart block to put the wrong pipe plug in the wrong hole, or to run them in too deep, and block off oil flow to the mains. This would still show the oil pressure we're getting, but not supply enough oil to the bottom end to keep it in one piece. Pulling it apart tomorrow to find out.
Re: Keep wiping out bearings.
Post those pics up on Dart's forum you might get an answer there.
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