My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

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10scnd70
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My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#1 Post by 10scnd70 » Wed May 11, 2011 4:05 pm

I was asked about our carburetos in another of my threads. I thought I'd start a thread dedicated to the Predator carbs we use. In my opinion, the best carburetors made. When we first built this motor, we had 3 different holleys on it the first season. We went though "adjusting this and changing that".. I had some of the Holley "experts" look at them, and tune them. We made the switch to a single predator and never looked back. The car went from a previous best 10.90 to a 10.83, and it started easier, and idled better. I have NEVER felt ANY holley with the throttle response of a Predator either. Predators offer many advantages over a Holley. They're "variable nenturi" carburetors, which means they work off engine demand. This means that you're never over or under carbureted. They will draw anywhere between 390-930 CFM...Whatever the engine wants. The Predator has exactly 2 adjustments... Main idle adjustment and idle air adjustment. You adjust idle air, and the way you tell when it's correct is to stick your thumb in the air door, rapidly. If the engine gains idle speed, you adjust one way...If it losses speed, you go the other. Once it stays steady, it's adjusted corectly. This takes about 15 minutes. TThe Predator uses no jets, power valves, squirters, idle air bleeds, etc. They do have a replaceable pump cam that usually doesn't need to be changed. We only needed it when we went to the twin set-up, because we were a little lean on the dyno. I called Predator, told them what we had, and they suggested the correct pump cams and sent me a set. Just the cam change fixed it perfectly. When I ordered the cams they told me, "If this doesn't fix it, bring the car to us, we'll fix it for nothing!" A great product that outperforms the competition AND great customer service! There are a few disadvantages to the Predator. They have no provisions for a TV/ kickdown cable, and they're taller than a Holley. In David Vizards book "How to build horepower" He states that the Predator MAY be down a few HP when compared to a PERFECTLY TUNED Holley. When was the last time you seen a PERFECTLY TUNED Holley?...LOL. BTW, you can buy a new Predator for around $530. http://callieskustoms.com/CalliesKustoms-Predator.html http://predatorcarb.com/performance/carburetor.html
Here's a picture of what I ran 10.83 @ 125 MPH with. The Predator worked great, off idle all the way to 7600 RPMs.
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These are pictures of the new twins
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We had the car out for one pass with the 386 and twins, before it broke a rod bolt. This was actually a soft launch to try out the new TH400 and transbrake..
Image

Frank
Just another 10 second Camaro...

zephyrc
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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#2 Post by zephyrc » Sun May 15, 2011 6:03 am

how would the predator work on a street car.. idle quality etc,,
how much taller than the holley is it,,
are air cleaners available for them

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10scnd70
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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#3 Post by 10scnd70 » Sun May 15, 2011 8:26 am

zephyrc wrote:how would the predator work on a street car.. idle quality etc,,
how much taller than the holley is it,,
are air cleaners available for them
I've known severak people, personally, that have used Predators on the street. Predator makes a carb with an idle circuit specifically for street use, but we've never had to use one. The regular versiobn idles better than any Holley we've tried. It also depends on your transmission choice. If you're using a manual valve body automatic or a stick trans, you'll be OK. You can run a non manual TH350 or TH400, but you won't be able to hook up the kickdown cable on the TH350.
The Predator is 5 1/4" tall, and has a standard air cleaner adapter. Their web page states that they don't have vacuum ports, but their instruction booklet tells you how to do a simple modification to give you one. We simply drilled and tapped a hole in our intake. You could also drill and tap a carb spacer to do the same thing. Here's a link to Predators FAQ page.
http://predatorcarb.com/performance/faq.html

Frank
Just another 10 second Camaro...

sc racing
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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#4 Post by sc racing » Sun May 15, 2011 3:46 pm

A lot of engines need more than 930 cfm and are only allowed 1 carb what do you do then? I guess thousands of engine builders and tens of thousands of racers MUST be wrong along with Nascar and NHRA pro stock.

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Bruce69Camaro
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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#5 Post by Bruce69Camaro » Mon May 16, 2011 11:40 am

Well you are correct and you are entitled to your own opinion and I'm sure you will hear others, as well.

Several, several years ago, I knew a mud racer that loved those carb's and had a pair on a sbf. His truck ran great with them on and as you mentioned, he commented several times about how easy they were to setup.

So I can't argue that they didn't work well.

But that was then and this is now and I don't know too many that still run those carbs and until you made this posting, I thought they were like dinosaurs and became extinct.

Not to long ago I was given a Predator because the owner didn't like it and wanted it out of his shop. I checked and it was the race carb. Just recently someone asked me what it was and I told them if they wanted it they could have it, so off it went to another new owner and as far as I know, it's still sitting on the shelf.

Holleys are proven winners and you can find them at every race track throughout the USA, whether it be NHRA, AHRA, NASCAR, dirt, whatever, they're going to be there.

You mentioned the cost of a new one was $530, well my new Pro Systems carb didn't cost me much more then that and I know there are quit a few more of them out there then this is Predator's, so I'm going to stick with what I know is track tested and proven on just about every track in the USA.

My only other comment is, you mentioned they are only good up to 930cfm, so if I needed a 1050cfm, and I had the choice of using one carb vs. two carbs, I think I'd go with the easier route and use one.

But then again this is just my opinion and this debate is just going to be like Ford vs. Chevy, Camaro vs Nova, small block vs big block.....not everyone is going to agree.
Those who think they know it all have no way of finding out they don't......... :scratch:

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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#6 Post by 10scnd70 » Mon May 16, 2011 12:19 pm

You bring up some excellent points, but the reason that many sancioning body cars only use Holleys is because that is stated in the rules. My point was, if an engine only needs less than 930 CFM, I'd rather run a Predator and not have to deal with the finicky tuning of a holley.
You bring up another valid pint... You don't see many of them anymore. That's one of the reasons I created this post. To let people know they're still available. There are many many people out there that hate Holleys and are looking for a different option. The Prdeator is reasonably priced, works well, hold up, is deadly consistant, will fit anything needing up to 930 CFM, and is easy to tune. Aren't those the thngs that alot of racers are looking for
I'd love to see a back to bacck dyno test between a Holley and a Predator on any engine needing 930 CFM or less. I honestly believe that if anyone did such a test, more people would be switching to the Predator.
I'm not affiliated with Predator in any way, but I know when I find a product that works better than another, I lke to tell other people. I know that I still have 2 Holleys in the garage that we use to hold doors open now.
The price of a Predator and a Holley might be close, but I can bolt a Predator and go out and run a number right out of the box. Add i9n the expense of extra parts for a Holley. Jets, Power valves, Suirtes, Pump cams, Air bleeds, Etc. All those parts add up...Unless you're that one lucky guy who get's a Holley correct the first time.

Frank
Just another 10 second Camaro...

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Bruce69Camaro
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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#7 Post by Bruce69Camaro » Mon May 16, 2011 1:44 pm

Frank,

Don't get me wrong, I think the therory of the Predator is excellant, kind of reminds me of the rotary engine with only three internal parts, it's just a shame that it really never caught on and it was up against some tough competition, like Holley and Carter AFB's

Have you checked on other sites to see if anyone on there ever did a Holley vs Predator test?

I'm sure someone had too?

See ya...
Those who think they know it all have no way of finding out they don't......... :scratch:

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10scnd70
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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#8 Post by 10scnd70 » Mon May 16, 2011 3:12 pm

Bruce69Camaro wrote:Frank,

Have you checked on other sites to see if anyone on there ever did a Holley vs Predator test?

I'm sure someone had too?

See ya...
Yes, I've seen one dyno test where the Predator made more power across the whole range. I'll have to see if I can find it again.

Frank
Just another 10 second Camaro...

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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#9 Post by 10scnd70 » Mon May 16, 2011 3:19 pm

Image

I have this test against a 750 Holley. It's kinda like Obamas birth certificate, though. I'm nit sure how true it is...

Frank
Just another 10 second Camaro...

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Yoozer
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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#10 Post by Yoozer » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:02 am

Frank,

FINALLY, FINALLY, FINALLY … Someone else that runs a Predator for drag racing!

I’m running a Predator on my SBC 406 Cu. In., 578 H.P. @ the flywheel, ’67 Chevelle, TH 400 -w- brake, back halved, big tire, 3000 Lbs, blah, blah, blah.

I was (“was” being the key word) running a Holley 950 cfm (you know…the one that’s not really a 950). After 3 or 4 trips up to the track, tuning, tuning, and more tuning, I made a few more trips to the track making no changes so I can get an idea of consistency. I threw out the best & the worst times, and came up with the car running between 10.47 -to- 10.57, but averaging in the 10.54 range. Not bad, but when you’re bracket racing against guys that have been doing it for 25 years, that kind of consistency WON’T CUT IT!

So, I pulled the 12+ year old Predator out of retirement, with all of the linkage squeaking, the throttle plates dragging on the inside of the housing, the metering block spool hanging up, and last but not least an accelerator pump that was seeping C12, leaving a nasty green residue around the pump housing. I worked it over the best I could without a rebuild kit, and took it to the track just for giggles.

Long story short … Again, throwing out the best and the worst times of the day, I ran a 10.50, 10.50, 10.52, 10.52, and a 10.53! That’s during a 1,300 ft. change in air quality throughout the day! So far, I’m sold on the Predator! I know this was only one day, but I have never run a full day within a THREE HUNDREDTHS window!

So I ordered a rebuild kit, and re-shaped the #2 cam that was in it, to be closer to the profile of the #3 cam because the plugs were reading a little lean. The #3 cam that I had must have got tired of sitting on the shelf for 12 years and took off on me. ;-)

I’ll post an update after I’ve been to the track a few times with it.

Mike

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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#11 Post by 10scnd70 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:08 am

Wanted to update this. Since the new combination is quite a bit more radical than the last, I wanted to talk to Predator about if we needed to make any changes to the carbs. The twin Predators are now going on a Shafiroff 434 bottom end with 14.25 compression, and a cam with .727" lift, and AFR 227heads. When we first went to the twin on the old 386, we were running a little lean on the dyno, so a simple pump cam change, from a #1 to a #2 was neccesary. With the new combination they suggested going up to #3's. I talked in length with them about the old combo and the new one, and our experience with their carbs over the years. He was familiar with my home tracks altitude because he used to drive the Predator sponsored Camaro, which made over 800HP with a single Predator, on motor. By the end of the conversation, he asled for my address and said he's send me 2 #3's. When I asked how much, he told me not to worry about it. Yes, the cams only sell for $10 each, but I do appreciate them offering to send them with no charge.
* A short time later, I found out it was the owner of Predator that I was talking to*
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Frank
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10scnd70
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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#12 Post by 10scnd70 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:12 am

There's also a very lengthy thread on "TellowBullet" right now about the Predator. The original thread was very old, but there are many new additions in the last several pages...
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showt ... p?t=271734

Frank
Just another 10 second Camaro...

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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#13 Post by Yoozer » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:55 am

So Frank, when do you think you might get some dyno numbers on that 434? It sounds like you'll be WELL into the 600 h.p. range.

Mike

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10scnd70
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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#14 Post by 10scnd70 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:31 am

Yoozer wrote:So Frank, when do you think you might get some dyno numbers on that 434? It sounds like you'll be WELL into the 600 h.p. range.

Mike
We're still gathering a few parts right now. Hopefully, it won't be too much longer. According to Shafiroff, this thing should make closer to 700, at the flexplate. If we're close to that, the car SHOULD run a 9.7-9.8. I got the pump cams from Predator yesteday. Here's a link to Shairoff of this engine, It makes 696 with a single carb. Shafiroff tells us we should see up to 15 more with our induction set up. http://www.shafiroff.com/sportsman/434_695.asp

There's also a great thread about Predators on "Yellow Bullet"
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showt ... p?t=271734

Frank
Just another 10 second Camaro...

572 BBC
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Re: My thoughts on Predator carburetors.

#15 Post by 572 BBC » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:19 am

dont mean to be a d!ck, but why do i never ever see a predator carb on a car at the track???

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