New stuff...

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wikd69
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New stuff...

#1 Post by wikd69 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:26 pm

Here I'm mocking up the new crank trigger. And I'm learning that a lot of guys running these setups don't use water pumps, or at least not the same water pump I switched to. I had to tweak a lot of stuff to get this all to fit together and clear the water pump and other things. We'll see if it does me any good.

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1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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wikd69
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Re: New stuff...

#2 Post by wikd69 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:49 pm

Ok, so what can you guys tell me about Big-M blocks ?

I'm looking at the Big-M standard deck block.

- Do I want ductile iron or steel main caps ? Whats the actual difference and when would it matter to me ? I expect this motor to (probably) be 1200 hp max, though who knows really down the road where it'll end up. 1200 hp is a big number for a roots style street motor, so I may not even hit that. Dunno...

- Do I want the .300 taller lifer bores or the standard OEM lifter bores ? My thought was to re-use these OEM style, high-end Isky solid-bush rollers in the new motor to save money, but I'd like to get feedback here from folks who know more about this topic. Do the new style lifter bores contain a guide groove to negate the use of tie bars on the rollers ?

- Dart will ship the block with freeze plugs and cam bearings installed (I think), but the bores are .010 undersized to allow you to do finish honing, etc. My question is this: Would you trust Dart to ship a 'clean' block, or would you want to tank and flush the galleys on the new block, and then do finish honing, before you pop in cam bearings and freeze plugs, etc ?

- If I elect to stud the bottom end, should I have the block line honed before use ? That's what prevented me from swapping over to main cap studs on my current OEM block, the recommendation from Hutchinson that I get the mains honed after installing main studs in place of bolts. I was already in-process on the build and didn't want to pull it back apart at that point.

- There may already be provisions for it, but if not, do I want to plan on getting the block machined to allow installation of screens in the lifter valley to catch debris ? I've seen this in other motors - I gather the idea is to contain broken chunks from busted push rods, lifters, rockers, etc. I personally don't plan on breaking any of that stuff :smt003 but fate doesn't always match my plans.

Any help or advice you guys could provide would be much appreciated :smt003
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Re: New stuff...

#3 Post by John_Heard » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:16 am

I used the Race series block, it had the steel caps, .903 raised .350 lifter boss, 55mm cam raised .600. Got it without cam bearings or freeze plugs. I had the machine shop put the cam bearings in after he honed it. It's a heavy bastard, about 300lbs. Short deck Big M probably be 50 lbs lighter.

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wikd69
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Re: New stuff...

#4 Post by wikd69 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:52 am

John_Heard wrote:I used the Race series block, it had the steel caps, .903 raised .350 lifter boss, 55mm cam raised .600. Got it without cam bearings or freeze plugs. I had the machine shop put the cam bearings in after he honed it. It's a heavy bastard, about 300lbs. Short deck Big M probably be 50 lbs lighter.
What does raising the cam do for you, John ? Shorter pushrods ? What is the benefit ?
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Re: New stuff...

#5 Post by John_Heard » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:29 am

Increased rod/cam clearance for big stroke crankshafts and yes shorter pushrods too.

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Re: New stuff...

#6 Post by bracketchev1221 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:47 am

For that much power I would go with the steel caps. And yes you will need to check the main bores if you are changing to studs. They may need to be re honed if the clamping is different and at that point, the block is held through the cam tunnel anyway so cam bearings are in the trash. Doesn't matter if Dart sends it clean or not. Once the block has to be honed for piston to wall and main size, it is no longer a clean block. The machine shop will probably knock all the oil plugs and bearings out of it anyway and clean it. Freeze/core plugs can stay in. That is just the water jackets and no big deal.

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Re: New stuff...

#7 Post by wikd69 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:31 am

bracketchev1221 wrote:For that much power I would go with the steel caps. And yes you will need to check the main bores if you are changing to studs. They may need to be re honed if the clamping is different and at that point, the block is held through the cam tunnel anyway so cam bearings are in the trash. Doesn't matter if Dart sends it clean or not. Once the block has to be honed for piston to wall and main size, it is no longer a clean block. The machine shop will probably knock all the oil plugs and bearings out of it anyway and clean it. Freeze/core plugs can stay in. That is just the water jackets and no big deal.
Thanks - that was kinda what I figured but it was worth asking the question.
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Re: New stuff...

#8 Post by wikd69 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:14 pm

Finally got this big bastard hung on the motor last night and I'm in the middle of getting it buttoned up. This new Hampton 871 is a fair bit bigger than the old Weiand 671. The blower case and impellers are an inch longer and with the belt tensioner / idler I had to overhaul all the regulator mounting stuff up front. I added 1" phenolic spacers under the carbs to insulate them from heat and this changed my throttle linkage. I also switched from the old 1/2" gilmer drive to the new 8mm setup and all my pulleys, spacers and registers changed as well. And holy crap, the 8mm belts are a lot more expensive than the 1/2" gilmer belts - sheesh - $140 vs $250 each. The 8mm setup is a lot better if you're gonna spin the bigger blowers faster - I'm guessing that's where the cost difference comes from.

I re-used my old intake manifold for now. After measuring, I determined the new intake manifold ports are a lot smaller than the ports on these Darts. The Dart intake ports were opened up and port-matched to a felpro 1275 intake gasket and the new manifold rectangular ports are quite a bit smaller than that. I'll send this new manifold out and have it port-patched to the 1275 as well and I'll swap in the new manifold later on.

And yeah, I'd been talking about maybe doing turbo's and getting away from this roots stuff but I would have had to cut too much sheet metal up on the Camaro to get there. I opted instead to go bigger with this new competition 871 from Hampton. It's anodized, stripped and *lots* tighter than the old Weiand I had. Assuming the budget will stand it, I'll step up to a new 540 (or so) short block this next year, the Big-M and Callies combo I've been talking about. I'll probably have to make the leap to EFI with that - these 2 x 750 Holleys won't be enough for that new motor and I don't want to invest in new carbs then. I'll be doing the planning around the EFI switch starting this spring.

More to follow...

Image
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Re: New stuff...

#9 Post by John_Heard » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:23 pm

I predict lower ET's in your future :thumb:

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Re: New stuff...

#10 Post by wikd69 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:29 pm

John_Heard wrote:I predict lower ET's in your future :thumb:
:smt003
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Bruce69Camaro
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Re: New stuff...

#11 Post by Bruce69Camaro » Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:27 am

Man that motor looks good Harry :thumb: :thumb:

Did you fire it up yet?

Guess I need to step up my game now if we're going "Nova" hunting....LOL
Those who think they know it all have no way of finding out they don't......... :scratch:

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Re: New stuff...

#12 Post by wikd69 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:20 pm

Bruce69Camaro wrote:Man that motor looks good Harry :thumb: :thumb:

Did you fire it up yet?

Guess I need to step up my game now if we're going "Nova" hunting....LOL
Heya Bruce, Happy New Year brother !!!!

Nope, haven't made noise yet - still finishing up some new wiring. I put off dealing with the spaghetti mess under the dash for a long time and finally decided it was time to do something about it during this build cycle.

I'm building a new relay panel with integrated type III breakers along with a new switch panel to mount on my A pillar hoop above the windshield. I think it'll turn out ok and it'll give me a central place to manage my power and whatnot on the ride.

Here is the switch panel, in progress. I use a program on my laptop called Visio (from Microsoft) and do all this design layout to scale first. I then print it out and use the printed diagram as a template for fabrication. I can lay the diagram out on the bare metal and center punch it for drilling. Works really really slick !!!!

Image

Here is the switch panel a little further along - I'm waiting for some additional toggles and I need to pick up a couple more LED's for the panel. I'm using standard DB25 computer cable to connect the switch panel to the relay panel, at least for lights. I'm thinking I'll use DIN plugs for the relay circuits themselves, over 18 gauge wire. All the heavy power stays down on the relay panel itself - all I route in and out of the switch panel are the indicator lights and the relay on/off circuits. Hopefully I've not missed anything with this design !

I've not drilled it yet, but I'll put a key switch in the left side of the panel as indicated along with a honking big red light above it for oil pressure. You can see these in the printed design layout.

Image

And here is the relay panel, another work in process. I'm using 40 Amp NC/NO relays which allow me to instrument the relay OFF condition for my red warning lights on the switch panel. I'll mount the panel under the dash on the passenger side along with my MSD ignition box - you won't even see it unless you open the glove box - that'll give me access to test circuits and set RPM limits, etc. I've made allowance for 8 relays / breakers to start with but can add additional circuits by mounting the hardware on the flip side of the relay panel using the same bolts for both sides.

This still looks pretty rough but it'll all be cleaned up and painted before I'm done with it :)

Image
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Re: New stuff...

#13 Post by John_Heard » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:43 pm

Nice, I love wiring projects!

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Re: New stuff...

#14 Post by wikd69 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:48 pm

John_Heard wrote:Nice, I love wiring projects!
I like doing this stuff as well, though my work doesn't turn out as clean as yours does John. You're a hard act to follow !!! :lol: :lol:
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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Re: New stuff...

#15 Post by wikd69 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:19 am

So here's a question for the group: What are the rules or concerns with my drilling and tapping a couple of 10-24 holes in my front cage hoop over the windshield to mount my switch panel ?

Right off it doesn't sound like a good practice to drill into a roll cage, but I know that people do it to mount body moldings, brackets, etc.

I'm at a loss in my search for clamps to use for this purpose - the few I've found are horribly expensive.

What do you guys think ? And what have you all done for this need ?
1969 ProStreet Camaro RS Best 9.75@139 1.46 60'
Blown 427 BBC, TH400 w/Brake, Back-Half Ladderbar
Narrowed 12-Bolt, 4.10 Gears, Spool, Moser 33 Spline

http://www.marsh-racing.com/harrys_camaro-1.htm

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