Ring gap

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79 Camaro · #1 Post by **79 Camaro** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:39 am

Ok, I have been thinking about this ring gap deal and how much the gap opens up over a period of time. I know that it is hard to guess, but i was wondering if anyone has any documentaion of the ring gap set when a motor was first put together to when you tore the motor down after a X amount of passes or run time. I have always heard that the ring gap will increase but i was wonder how much?? Are we talking about a gap that was set at .020 and then after 50 passes it went to .030 or so?? I know that there is no set number for this type of thing but I was wondering maybe if someone knew like a average?? Also, will you see a increase of gap faster when using a power adder opposed to naturally asperated??

Anyways, just something to think about and get all your wheels turning upstairs

Thanks,
Adam

Mick · #2 Post by **Mick** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:25 pm

WHAT WHEELS
MICK

sunsation540 · #3 Post by **sunsation540** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:48 pm

adam on tear down most ring packs grow about .008 i do not think that a power adder would make a diff as the rings only see the heat no load diffrence unless gas ports are used don't over think this stuff we found like 4 hp going from .022 to .018 on the rings and std tension to low tension cyl finish and ring type have much more to do with ring life then load..IMO only 4 weeks to go i need tires and a nitrous engine i don't have a intake yet are you working on the car or just tortureing your brain...

#4 Post by **John_Heard** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:13 am

We've been concerned about upping the spray on Adam's car much over 200 because of the ring gaps. Adam's wanting to up the shot but worrying about butting rings.

79 Camaro · #5 Post by **79 Camaro** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:31 am

sunsation540 wrote:adam on tear down most ring packs grow about .008 i do not think that a power adder would make a diff as the rings only see the heat no load diffrence unless gas ports are used don't over think this stuff we found like 4 hp going from .022 to .018 on the rings and std tension to low tension cyl finish and ring type have much more to do with ring life then load..IMO only 4 weeks to go i need tires and a nitrous engine i don't have a intake yet are you working on the car or just tortureing your brain...

Thats good info and thanks for that. John H is right, I have been wanting to kick it up a notch later in the season, but I need to get fully hooked up on the little shot I have on there now. Not wanting to step it up just yet but maybe later in the year when I get everything out of what I have on there now.
I have been working on my car and have so much work to do... Found out that i needed a whole new cage along with other stuff.. I think the only thing that will be the same on my car this year will be the motor, trans,and rearend... O and the paint

But I have been tortureing my brain in my free time... Its good for ya

Racer704 · #6 Post by **Racer704** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:12 pm

Here is a little to add to the mix. Nitrous engines do require a larger ring gap on the top ring and you need to think of how much your going to use as in BHPs.. The only way a ring gap will increse is thru piston wall wear.For every .001 of wall increase you get about .003 in end gap on the ring.

Almost every ring manufacture has instructions on how to and what to on file fit rings. If I had a motor down i would use Total seals Gapless rings.You should call and they will assit you with regardsa to a gappless 1st or second ring. hey hold up great and make power for sure. You will open up the gap on the gapless ring because of more heat.One more pointg to bring up is are your pistons gas ported and dont use Moly rings with N2O.

I hope this helps some...

79 Camaro · #7 Post by **79 Camaro** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:59 pm

Thanks for the info Johnny, So do you like the Total Seal Gapless rings over the Hell fire rings for big nitrous shots like 350 shot and up?

I am not a 100% sure what rings are in my motor. I know that they are total seal, but I think the are just whatever comes with the forged eagle assemblies, so would that be Plasma moly cast iron?

Thanks,
adam

Racer704 · #8 Post by **Racer704** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:32 pm

I really wouldnt try to guess as to what rings came in anyones kit. Hellfires are great rings but I would talk to Total seal on what you have and what you want to do and what gapless package they would suggest.You have to know the piston specs such ring width you have on all your rings and the what the ring grove depth is and if there gas ported or not may be helpfull.

I have used gapless and liked them, i had to go back to my tool steel top rings untill get my fuel curve right with the E-85 and then I will return to using them.If you want to use Hellfires you cant go wrong with them either.

You can go to any manufatures site and look up ring gaps and there will be a formula to use for your bore and power adder also.I hope this helps...

79 Camaro · #9 Post by **79 Camaro** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:25 pm

Cool, when I go to freshen up my motor I will take all this into consideration. Thanks for the help

Racer704 · #10 Post by **Racer704** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:12 pm

Your welcom and please if you need more help when the time is near you can contact me anytime.I will help you the best i can....

79 Camaro · #11 Post by **79 Camaro** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:05 pm

I will and thank you

Adam Wright

Ron69SS · #12 Post by **Ron69SS** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:45 am

So allow me to chime in here and ask as well.
I believe we set my top ring gap to .018.....it's a 4.32" bore 498. Rule of thumb is .004" per inch of bore, right? Engine is now 4 years old with many runs.
SRP pistons and the top ring is a fair ways down the piston.
Wasn't set up for nitrous. Rings are what SRP supplied.
But I'm going to run more than a 100 shot this year...250 max, but maybe 200 would be smarter. With a progressive unit.....sorry to answer slow Johnny.
Do I need to take it apart and change rings? Or run it as is and see what happens? I kind of want to go to a 555 some day......but don't really want to break it to do so.

Ron

Racer704 · #13 Post by **Racer704** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:08 am

I wouldnt pull it apart for only 100 to 200 hp of nitrous . I would run it ifit was mine, but if they are moly rings you could have a problem if you have a cyl. get to hot.

supernova · #14 Post by **supernova** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:17 pm

Ron69SS wrote:So allow me to chime in here and ask as well.
I believe we set my top ring gap to .018.....it's a 4.32" bore 498. Rule of thumb is .004" per inch of bore, right? Engine is now 4 years old with many runs.
SRP pistons and the top ring is a fair ways down the piston.
Wasn't set up for nitrous. Rings are what SRP supplied.
But I'm going to run more than a 100 shot this year...250 max, but maybe 200 would be smarter. With a progressive unit.....sorry to answer slow Johnny.
Do I need to take it apart and change rings? Or run it as is and see what happens? I kind of want to go to a 555 some day......but don't really want to break it to do so.

Ron

Man I have to chime in on this. I have about the same set up as you but mine is a 525 ci motor
4.310 b x 4.50 s. I am running .030 on the top ring and .033 on the bottom. I use the hellfire rings and according to mfg. for that bore and a 250 shot of n2o you need a large gap on the top and a larger gap on the bottom. The formula is .007 x bore for the top ring and .0075 for the bottom ring. You have to let the gases escape from between the rings that is why you make the bottom gap bigger. Use a vacuum pump for the block pressure, and it helps to seal the rings, and it help make 14 more HP in my motor.
I tryed gapless rings and didn't have that good of luck.

Racer704 · #15 Post by **Racer704** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:04 pm

SuperNova your right with your ring gaps and I wont agrue the point, but he runs 100 now and on a 500 inch motor to add only 100 more he asked my opinion on pulling it apart and I said no if it were me i wouldnt. I didnt go into why and all about the second ring as he wasnt pulling it apart.His formula was correct for standard to modified N/A motor with most pistons and rings.

I have run 250hp in a 350 with stock bottom end for a whole season in a car and went thru 10 bottles of juice, but my reasons for leaving it alone are this.He stated that it was 4 years old with many runs so how much bore and or ring wear would you guess it has since it was new? I bet .001 to .002 at least so for every .001 of bore and ring wear the gap opens .003 so now he is in the .020's somewhere.So I would run it and see what happens as he has not had any issue with the 100 shot.
heres sometyhing to think about .007 is useds for nitrous and blower apps, but for how much nitrous? Its a good rule of thumb as i said but think of how much your going to run because depending on whos rings the spec can be .0055 to .007 so with that said lets do the middle say .006 X 4.32=.0259 so with the wear of the cyl. taken in to account we are only off maybe .003 at most and as I said above for only 100 more shot its worth the try.

Now if you are running a vacum pump then I would open the 2nd way up then and let the pump work, I have run up to .070 and yes it lets the gasses by and helps keep the top ring flutter down in the higher RPM's above 5000 plus .

Snova i am not trying to get into a pissing contest with you but you said you had to chime in Sir so I had to explain my self in detail so you see why I said what i did.Now this in no way is me taking any shots at you sir and i hope you dont read it as such and if you have seen any of my posts on this board you know that then.

Take Care

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