Ok, so I need some opinions...

[mtanner]

Hey HS - The new lines look great - - (Much better than the trans scraps!!, Bummer) Remember to try to find that case with the 6 bolt converter cover, I might know where one is if you cant find one there. I also saw an article on "locating" might help it last. Talk to ya later buddy. -

[wikd69]

Hey HS - The new lines look great - - (Much better than the trans scraps!!, Bummer) Remember to try to find that case with the 6 bolt converter cover, I might know where one is if you cant find one there. I also saw an article on "locating" might help it last. Talk to ya later buddy. -

Thanks Mike :)

I've been looking for a TH400 HD case with no luck so far so if you have a line on one I'd be very interested in it.

[wikd69]

Harry this is a QUOTE from another site, they are talking EFI fuel systems but any return style system would be similar, I think.


QUOTE from Brett with Aeromotive...link to thread... http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index ... ic=92977.0
"All Aeromotive EFI pumps are, and have always been, in-line by design. This simply means fuel flows through the electric motor, providing cooling and lubrication, and allowing a motor so large that it would not be rated for 100% duty cycle in a T-style pump (not in-line) to provide 100% duty cycle service. Other companies, including Magnafuel, are seeing the explosion in the high HP street market, and are responding with similar style fuel pumps to tap into that potential sales stream.

In testing for durability, Aeromotive does not use or need any kind of voltage control or voltage/speed reduction. One of the continuous duty tests we perform is a constant run till death, at 60 PSI and 13.5 volts. The test fuel container holds roughly 3 gallon of gas, which is constantly recycled through the pump, a flow meter and back to the tank. The typical A1000 durability test runs for 2,000 continuous hours. Hot fuel handling is not a problem of any kind during these tests, same for the Eliminator and Pro-Pump, though they don't last quite as long.

The reason Aeromotive recommends a fuel pump speed controller for use in the car has more to with the nature of EFI engines than anything else; simply the fuel flow is a constant, from the pump to the engine compartment, through the fuel rail, to the regulator and back to the tank. The fuel flow path includes significant exposure to engine and exhaust heat, particularly through the fuel rail, atop the cylinder head(s). Underhood temperatures, depending on the chassis and engine/power adder type, can easily range between 200-400 deg f, especially in traffic, where there's little airflow. A typical A1000 fuel pump will recycle over 2 GPM at 40 PSI. With a modern automotive fuel tank capacity at 15 gallons, assuming the tank is full, every 7.5 minutes all the fuel in the tank has seen the engine compartment. In one hour of driving, again assuming the tank stayed full, the contents would have been recycled 8.5 times. Given fuel consumption and a dwindling volume in the tank, it's probably closer to 12 or more times.

My point is, when fuel recycles, through the engine compartment, it's heated. The bigger the pump, the faster temperature climbs. Once fuel reaches 140 deg f in the tank, hot fuel handling problems can develop, regardless of the pump, it's just the laws of physics at work. By the way, assuming a 2,000 HP capability naturally aspirated, that's 1,000 lbs/hr of fuel or roughly 2.7 GPM. So with the Magnafuel 4303 and a 15 gallon tank it's a 5.5 minute recycle rate, 11 times an hour with a constantly full tank, closer to 18 times per hour in the real world."

Do you use a pump speed controler?
---Bill.

Bill,

Sorry, it was rude of me, I didn't respond when you sent this originally. Sometimes I'm such a space cadet...

No, I don't use a pump speed controller, at least not yet. Geezo, it's like I stepped off into the twilite zone with this fuel thing. I honestly thought that installing a a high volume pump with a full return system would set me up forever and ever, amen. Hah !

I'm finally digging my way out of work and holiday stuff and getting back into another build cycle with the hotrod, and I'm now addressing this fuel issue again. I'm shipping my (almost) new Aerospace pump back to have them check it out, see if it's binding or something, generating excess heat. If it's not the problem, I'm no sure what to do. If I'm picking up that much ambient heat from under the hood and recycling it back to the fuel cell, then I'm not sure what the heck I can do about that except to insulate the fuel lines better. I'm sorta at a loss for now.

[sc68z28]

No, I don't use a pump speed controller, at least not yet. Geezo, it's like I stepped off into the twilite zone with this fuel thing. I honestly thought that installing a a high volume pump with a full return system would set me up forever and ever, amen.

And I'm not saying you need a controller ?? . I found what Brett from Aeromotive wrote very interesting, amazing the number of times the fuel recycles in a return style sys. I do have a controller on mine, it's set to slow the pump down at RPM's under 3K.

What pump are you using Harry?

BTW, Saturday I went with a buddy over to The Carb Shop, to dyno his 357ci sb w/ 871 Hampton blower, 13% underdriven, 14 psi boost. This is his 3rd or 4th try at this combo. He has never Dynoed it before, made 708hp @ 6800, 606tq @ 5300. He is going to need a bigger fuel pump, was using a BG280 pump, rated to 650hp , no wonder it wouldn't run before. It was going lean at the top of second gear, turbo 400, 410 gear, 55 Chevy PU.



---Bill.

[wikd69]

No, I don't use a pump speed controller, at least not yet. Geezo, it's like I stepped off into the twilite zone with this fuel thing. I honestly thought that installing a a high volume pump with a full return system would set me up forever and ever, amen.

And I'm not saying you need a controller ?? . I found what Brett from Aeromotive wrote very interesting, amazing the number of times the fuel recycles in a return style sys. I do have a controller on mine, it's set to slow the pump down at RPM's under 3K.

What pump are you using Harry?

BTW, Saturday I went with a buddy over to The Carb Shop, to dyno his 357ci sb w/ 871 Hampton blower, 13% underdriven, 14 psi boost. This is his 3rd or 4th try at this combo. He has never Dynoed it before, made 708hp @ 6800, 606tq @ 5300. He is going to need a bigger fuel pump, was using a BG280 pump, rated to 650hp , no wonder it wouldn't run before. It was going lean at the top of second gear, turbo 400, 410 gear, 55 Chevy PU.

---Bill.

I have an Aerospace Components Ultra-350. Dunno what it's rated at HP-wise, but the tag spec'ed it out at 400 gph free flow on the bench. That would mean my 15 gallon cell is recirculated every 3 minutes or so... I wonder if I lose octane points by rubbing all those gas molecules togther that much ?

http://www.aerospacecomponents.com/fuel_pumps.htm#

[wikd69]

No, I don't use a pump speed controller, at least not yet. Geezo, it's like I stepped off into the twilite zone with this fuel thing. I honestly thought that installing a a high volume pump with a full return system would set me up forever and ever, amen.

And I'm not saying you need a controller ?? . I found what Brett from Aeromotive wrote very interesting, amazing the number of times the fuel recycles in a return style sys. I do have a controller on mine, it's set to slow the pump down at RPM's under 3K.

What pump are you using Harry?

BTW, Saturday I went with a buddy over to The Carb Shop, to dyno his 357ci sb w/ 871 Hampton blower, 13% underdriven, 14 psi boost. This is his 3rd or 4th try at this combo. He has never Dynoed it before, made 708hp @ 6800, 606tq @ 5300. He is going to need a bigger fuel pump, was using a BG280 pump, rated to 650hp , no wonder it wouldn't run before. It was going lean at the top of second gear, turbo 400, 410 gear, 55 Chevy PU.

[---Bill.

Holy geezo !!! I just re-read that. An 871 on a small-block ? 14 lbs of boost ought to make for an interesting cruise to the burger shop !!!!

[sc68z28]

Holy geezo !!! I just re-read that. An 871 on a small-block ? 14 lbs of boost ought to make for an interesting cruise to the burger shop !!!!

Should be a fun ride, if it stays together.
He has had all kinds of problems in the past, hoping I can help him this time. I may have questions for you if you don't mind???
Will have to see how it goes. Step one is done, tuning on the dyno, not on the street. It was very lean the way he had it before.



---Bill.

[wikd69]

Holy geezo !!! I just re-read that. An 871 on a small-block ? 14 lbs of boost ought to make for an interesting cruise to the burger shop !!!!

Should be a fun ride, if it stays together.
He has had all kinds of problems in the past, hoping I can help him this time. I may have questions for you if you don't mind???
Will have to see how it goes. Step one is done, tuning on the dyno, not on the street. It was very lean the way he had it before.

---Bill.

Absolutely - if I can provide any help I'd be happy to. And catching the lean condition *before* he really started wailing on it probably saved the motor. Too much O2 is what kills a lot of huffer builds. Most of what I picked up was trial and error with this ride, but once you get your head around it it's moslty common sense. And, knowing when *not* to nail the throttle

Is he using boost referenced carbs ? Hard to tell from the pix... What are those carbs ? I don't recognize the bowls tho they certainly look like a Holley varient.

[chpcamaro]

it's a trans art carr made that you had a switch that would change the converter stall rpm it was cool for the street
rob

[wikd69]

it's a trans art carr made that you had a switch that would change the converter stall rpm it was cool for the street
rob

I don't think my wife will let me add any more cool stuff to the camaro

[wikd69]

[What pump are you using Harry?

BTW, Saturday I went with a buddy over to The Carb Shop, to dyno his 357ci sb w/ 871 Hampton blower, 13% underdriven, 14 psi boost. This is his 3rd or 4th try at this combo. He has never Dynoed it before, made 708hp @ 6800, 606tq @ 5300. He is going to need a bigger fuel pump, was using a BG280 pump, rated to 650hp , no wonder it wouldn't run before. It was going lean at the top of second gear, turbo 400, 410 gear, 55 Chevy PU.

---Bill.

Bill, I just got to thinking...

Is your buddy looking for a new, bigger fuel pump ? I should have this one back from Aerospace this week sometime, I had them flow test it and check it for issues. It's essentially a brand new pump, with only about 8 hours of street use on it. I gave something like $300 + shipping for it - if your buddy is interested, I'll give him a good deal on it. I think I need to drop down to something with a bit less flow. This pump is advertised to flow over 350 gph and actually bench tested at about 400 gph, according to the tag.

If he's interested, let me know. The pump is an Aerospace Components Ultra-350. Here's a pic and a link to their website.



http://www.aerospacecomponents.com/inde ... &Itemid=66

[sc68z28]

He may be looking for a bigger pump, but we are going to flow test @ pressure his current pump first.

The carbs are BG 750's, as far as "boost referenced" (I'm not sure what that means) he has a vac/boost line running from below the blower to both carbs. He said it makes the power valves work. Does that make sense?

---Bill.

[wikd69]

He may be looking for a bigger pump, but we are going to flow test @ pressure his current pump first.

The carbs are BG 750's, as far as "boost referenced" (I'm not sure what that means) he has a vac/boost line running from below the blower to both carbs. He said it makes the power valves work. Does that make sense?

---Bill.

Weird, I thought I'd already responded to this.

Anyway, that's all 'boost referenced' really means, getting a vacuum signal from below the blower so as to allow the PowerValves to work correctly. You're always under vacuum at the top of the blow so the PV's cannot react appropriately. In a boost referenced carb, the normal carb baseplate/manifold PV vacuum circuit is blocked off and a hole is drilled through the side of the carb, directly into the PV chamber. A vacuum line from below the blower is then attached to this new port.

I've always thought 'boost referencing' was somewhat of a misnomer. It prolly should have been called 'vacuum referencing'.

But then 'boost referencing' does sound cooler...

[Mezmorized]

I'd like to get some feed back from the group.

I'm old school when it comes to this... But all I see in this pic (I know you've changed it since) is vapor lock waiting to happen! I was always taught that you always run the fuel lines uphill to the carb(s) and away from heat sources of course :)

[wikd69]

I'm old school when it comes to this... But all I see in this pic (I know you've changed it since) is vapor lock waiting to happen! I was always taught that you always run the fuel lines uphill to the carb(s) and away from heat sources of course :)

Yeah, but it looked so cool from the front

It's been revamped, without all the 'vapor lock starter kit' features